Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: A Message I sent to Apple
Note: I trimmed this down a little bit when I got to the Apple web-site. Made it less a rant, more concise. I have no idea about the developers' feelings about what I suggest here. It was just an expression of my feelings on the matter. Maybe other, similar letters could help the cause? At least gain access to an Intel development machine?
Subj: iOffice
To Apple Development:
Why did I buy a Macintosh?
1) I've always recognized the MacOS as the undisputed king of GUI's.
2) OS X inspires the same confidence I had in Linux.
3) The Mini is tiny and quiet: Apple makes great hardware.
4) The Mini was priced right to get me in the door.
A Mini costs the same as a copy of Microsoft Office. And Office is available for free on the Mini.
Granted, I had to install it myself. But a quick download from http://www.neooffice.org/ did the trick. I installed NeoOffice like any other OS X application bundle. I now have full interoperability with MS Office users, with features and stability that meet or exceed Microsoft's own product. And it is free.
My question is: why isn't this bundled with every copy of OS X? It's free. It was the one component missing from my OS X install. With it, my Mini became a turn-key solution which meets the needs of 95% of all computer users.
What is the single flaw of NeoOffice from a commercial point of view? Support. There's an easy solution. Patrick Luby and Edward Peterlin appear to be the two most significant developers of NeoOffice. They commit more than 1500 volunteer hours annually to development and maintenance of NeoOffice. They have shown strong motivation. Why not empower them to engage that work full-time and with adequate hardware resources? If they were Apple employees (or long-term contractors), NeoOffice would become "supported" in a way that could be understood by corporate America.
OpenOffice.org is inferior to Microsoft's product only in terms of marketing dollars. NeoOffice brings OpenOffice.org to the Macintosh. Instead of competing in areas where Apple begins at a disadvantage (e.g., the Safari browser), why not take advantage of mature open source solutions? You already do this with many aspects of OS/X. (I was most amused by the fact that I'm still using my good ol' CUPS printing system: I copied over the PPD file from my Linux box!)
I believe NeoOffice could be a big winner for Apple. Think SoundJam and iTunes. Which more commonly justifies the purchase of a computer: playing music or word processing?
I have no connection with NeoOffice, OpenOffice.org, or Apple. Except that I am a happy customer of each. My personal distaste for Microsoft comes from their market dominance when their main product (Windows) is so obviously and consistently inferior to other options. Which means I am forced to deal with it when interacting with friends and colleagues.
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:10 am Post subject: Re: A Message I sent to Apple
tef wrote:
My question is: why isn't this bundled with every copy of OS X? It's free.
Because Apple doesn't want to compete with MS in this area. If Apple bundled Neo/J, it would eventually lead to the termination of MS Office:mac. That's one of the worst things that could happen to Apple.
"MS Office runs on Macs" is one of Apple's key selling points.
If Apple really wanted to make a whole office suite, they'd expand iWork.
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: A Message I sent to Apple
Quote:
Because Apple doesn't want to compete with MS in this area. If Apple bundled Neo/J, it would eventually lead to the termination of MS Office:mac. That's one of the worst things that could happen to Apple.
"MS Office runs on Macs" is one of Apple's key selling points.
Ouch. That makes perfect sense. It's a tragic world we live in: all politics.
There's no good way around this, is there? How might Apple free their hands to do what makes sense without endangering an already precarious market segment? Maybe if the intel boxes could run WINE in a semi-transparent way (as I configured my box to run X) so they could run the native Windows app's???
Or if OO's compatibility passed into common knowledge and common-gut-level-acceptance? (The impossible dream?)
Or if Mr. Jobs took a personal interest in the issue and decided to make the leap. Trade off being an MS hostage (i.e., MS endorsement in the form of Office:Mac) in order to complete his OS with its own office suite.
But the trade-off isn't so great. Lose corporate business. Gain business of people too cheap (me) or frugal (others) to buy Office. Who almost all know about, install and use OO/Neo anyhow.
How much corporate business would they really stand to lose, anyhow? (Genuine question: I have no idea.) All the graphic designers & folks using specialized app's could probably make the switch to a well-packaged iOffice without too much concern.
apple does have an office suite, it is called appleworks.
it's about the tools you need. MS cannot afford to stop making the mac version of office. why? because mac users pay for office. seriously.
would including Neo hurt office sales? maybe some. mostly not, because most users think MS office is the only kid on the block. me? i still miss wordperfect. WP9.0 was the best word processor i've ever used. but that is PC only and a slight tangent.
anyway. the reason they wouldnt is because including Neo would hurt Apple. Really. With Neo included who would pay $70 for iwork? or for Appleworks? nope, they would have neo.
those who are gonna drop $400 for office are gonna do it. it is those $70 ones that are on the fence.
Joined: Feb 03, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Scotland
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject:
I think short-to-mid-term Neo/J will benefit from OOo's success on other platforms. I do not believe the existence of iWorks and AppleWorks are any consideration for Apple to support or not support Neo/J. AppleWorks is just not a serious contender for either Neo/J or MS Office and corporate customers would feel very reluctant to start yet another package, i.e. iWorks. I don't think either of them are "serious" wp packages, despite of some of their innovative features and "Apple-feel". However, I agree with KamiKazov. The fact that MS Office runs on Apple is a selling point for Apple in the corporate world. But with the current success of OpenOffice on other platforms, particularly in Europe and Australasia, Neo/J will also benefit from its sibling's success and become more important for the corporate world. Another consideration in the corporate world is/will be in my opinion the emergence of the Opendocument standard. Once that is accepted more widely people will feel less reluctant to evade the grip of the "standard" MS format. For me non of this was important. I just didn't want to shove £250 up Billy Boy's derrière despite the fact that I am doing lots of professional wp and presentation work. Neo/J has served me well for two years now and I believe all of us (including myself) should make more of a financial contribution towards Patrick's work
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: A Message I sent to Apple
tef wrote:
There's no good way around this, is there? How might Apple free their hands to do what makes sense without endangering an already precarious market segment? Maybe if the intel boxes could run WINE in a semi-transparent way (as I configured my box to run X) so they could run the native Windows app's???
Totally off-topic for the thread, but that will be the end of the Mac. "Just run Windows" is the line app developers will give all Mac users.
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
if memory serves, OS/2Warp had that issue. it ran windows programs too well, so no one wrote OS/2 software.
and we see how that turned out.
True and false. OS/2 Warp never ran most Win32s programs and Windows took off like a rocket. There are other political issues that could be debated for a long time but it basically becomes that Windows ended up dominating the Intel PC world. And yes, I am still a member of TeamOS/2. However, I find running Macs a lot more fun.
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject:
Even more offtopic...I actually always wanted to try and start up an OS/2 port since I always thought it was a rocking OS. I couldn't find a copy that ever supported my frankenstein home grown boxen. OS/2 was a great OS and I'm sad to see it go. Thankfully ecomstation is still kinda helping it hobble along.
I just hope all those ATMs don't start running XP embedded or else my bank account'll be in a world of hurt...
Joined: Sep 18, 2003 Posts: 434 Location: London, UK
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: Re: A Message I sent to Apple
sardisson wrote:
tef wrote:
There's no good way around this, is there? How might Apple free their hands to do what makes sense without endangering an already precarious market segment? Maybe if the intel boxes could run WINE in a semi-transparent way (as I configured my box to run X) so they could run the native Windows app's???
Totally off-topic for the thread, but that will be the end of the Mac. "Just run Windows" is the line app developers will give all Mac users.
Smokey
To which you can respond - no thanks, I don't mind running Windows apps within a secure Mac environment via an emulator, but I would object to exposing myself to an OS so inherently insecure.
The more I think about the switch to X86, the more it becomes apparent that this is a genius move on the part of Apple... it has its risks of course but one thing is for sure... MS may be able to kill off Office for OS X in the future, but they will no longer be able to kill Office for the Mac because you will still be able to run the Windows version... Think about it, this could actually be the opportunity for Apple to end up bundling something akin to NOJ or their own Office suite with their machines without the potential for MS to kill them stone dead by terminating Office for the Mac! _________________ PBG4, 1.5GHz, SuperDrive, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 5400rpm 80GB HD, MacOS X 10.4.5
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:45 am Post subject: Re: A Message I sent to Apple
JKT wrote:
sardisson wrote:
tef wrote:
There's no good way around this, is there? How might Apple free their hands to do what makes sense without endangering an already precarious market segment? Maybe if the intel boxes could run WINE in a semi-transparent way (as I configured my box to run X) so they could run the native Windows app's???
Totally off-topic for the thread, but that will be the end of the Mac. "Just run Windows" is the line app developers will give all Mac users.
Smokey
To which you can respond - no thanks, I don't mind running Windows apps within a secure Mac environment via an emulator, but I would object to exposing myself to an OS so inherently insecure.
Fantastic idea. This would be great, but don't forget the old M$ mantra "DOS is not done until Lotus will not run". This means that M$ could put code in that would only allow their applications to run on their OS and no other. Of course, the WINE folks could find the hooks and fix it. This could lead to a situation similar to a dog chasing its own tail, and we all lose in the end.
JKT wrote:
The more I think about the switch to X86, the more it becomes apparent that this is a genius move on the part of Apple... it has its risks of course but one thing is for sure... MS may be able to kill off Office for OS X in the future, but they will no longer be able to kill Office for the Mac because you will still be able to run the Windows version... Think about it, this could actually be the opportunity for Apple to end up bundling something akin to NOJ or their own Office suite with their machines without the potential for MS to kill them stone dead by terminating Office for the Mac!
That is very true. All the Open Source community has to do is keep up with the various formats that M$ uses, build filters for those formats and then tout the use of XML coding in the OpenDocument format. This is definately a Win-Win-Win situation (that means that M$ loses though)
I hope that Apple does not loose its edge when other companies, such as DELL, pick up MacIntel. Heck, I would love to see MacIntel on my aging IBM Thinkpad A22p running OpenOffice/NeoOfficeJ with a world class Operating System. That would be different and a return to the OS/2 days.
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