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NeoOffice :: View topic - NeoWiki in French
NeoWiki in French
 
   NeoOffice Forum Index -> NeoWiki and Website Development
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: NeoWiki in French

Ok, i've put up a french version of the wiki.

I do not speak french.

During setup it asked for unicode or latin. Well, I took latin in high school, so I picked that. If unicode was the right answer, i think i know how to change it.

Also, I have made it so it uses the same image directory as the main wiki. HOWEVER. It does not yet see what was previously uploaded, only what was uploaded through it.. so for right now upload is diabled so i can figure this out.

I did a ductape type of install, not the eloquent multi-wiki setup that i had hoped. So one of these days I plan to change that... when i figure out how. (something about sim-links)
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val1984
Oracle


Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 229
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject:

Thanks Jake Smile

But how do I access the french version?

Concerning character encoding, I would have chosen Unicode but Latin will be OK.
If you are able to understand some Latin words then you'll be able to understand some french words Wink
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject:

you want the URL too???
geez you guys want EVERYTHING
=D

http://neowikifr.sixthcrusade.com

i know, incredibly creative naming.

-j
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val1984
Oracle


Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 229
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject:

I think you need to change the encoding since the accents aren't working properly with ISO Latin 1 in my browser Sad
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:44 pm    Post subject:

If it isn't too much trouble, use Unicode for all languages that you add. It will make life much easier as you can then put text that is not supported by the more restrictive character sets. For example, with Unicode, I can put Japanese and Arabic text within an English document.

Patrick
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, the accents aren't working right here, either.

Nor is interwiki linking of the sort [[fr:Accueil]] or of the sort [[neowikifr:Accueil]] Sad Somewhere the domain/namespace mapping got messed up or wasn't created. All the links between them currently have to be long, external links....

And you've uploaded the ship without the dropshadow and all that Smile

Seriously, thanks! We'll work out all the little details in due time Smile

Smokey

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"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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jakeOSX
Ninja
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Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject:

ok, i am pretty sure i've set it to unicode (uselatin = false)

so should be good. (remember it may be cached on your computer)

if not, let me know. i'll see what i can figure out.

and i was just testing with the ship, smokey, feel free to upload the 'correct' image =P

-j
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val1984
Oracle


Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 229
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:25 am    Post subject:

I'm sorry Jake but it seems it isn't set the right way since neither Unicode nor Latin 1 make the page display properly in my browser Sad

In unicode mode, I see "Accueil communaut��" behind "Accueil"
and in Latin 1 mode, I see "Accueil communautˆ©" instead of "Accueil Communauté".
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jakeOSX
Ninja
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Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject:

ok, does the french part of the wikipedia display right for everyone? if so that is a quick test to see if it is me or the software.

i don't have time today (unfortunatly) but maybe tomorrow i'll be able to do some research on it.
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sardisson
Town Crier
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Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:13 am    Post subject:

jakeOSX wrote:
ok, does the french part of the wikipedia display right for everyone? if so that is a quick test to see if it is me or the software.


Oui! fr.wikipedia.org displays properly. It's encoded UTF-8, as is NeoWiki (en).

Note that what displays incorrectly on NeoWikiFR (no matter what encoding you tell the browser to use to override the set encoding) is the "skin" stuff.

The user-entered text displays OK in Latin-1 but horribly incorrectly (the accented letters turn into giant spaces) in UTF-8.

So what I think happened is that when you chose Latin-1 at the beginning, all the pages were encoded in Latin-1. Now that you've changed it to UTF-8, it only changed the page header (to make it claim UTF-Cool but the all the stuff (esp. the skin, which we can't edit) is still actually encoded in Latin-1, thus the mis-display....

Or something like that, becuase the accents in the skin didn't display correctly when the page was Latin-1 encoded, either. Hmm.

(I've now "fixed" the accents for UTF-8 in the main page "description" of Neo/J only--i.e., "La suite stable..."--which was simply a matter of re-inputing the correct ones.)

Smokey

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"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:58 am    Post subject:

I'm probably being picky, but I noticed two issues with the French NeoWiki:

1. There are no cross-links between the English and the French NeoWiki. In other words, if you are in the English NeoWiki, there is no "French" link.

2. When I set my browser's default language to French and go to http://neowiki.sixthcrusade.com, I do not see the French pages.

Let me explain an approach for issue #2. I don't know if you have time to implement this, but Apache has the ability to serve different pages for the same requested URI depending on what the preferred language that the user's browser is to. I use this feature at http://www.planamesa.com/neojava/ to route user's to a localized set of pages. What I think might make sense from an ease-of-navigation and ease-of-administration standpoint is to move the existing English pages to http://neowiki.sixthcrusade.com/en/ and have the French pages at http://neowiki.sixthcrusade.com/fr/. Then in http://neowiki.sixthcrusade.com/, there would only be one valid URI: index.php. You could then add the following entries in your .htaccess file:

Code:
Options +MultiViews
AddLanguage en .en
AddLanguage fr .fr

ErrorDocument 403 /
ErrorDocument 404 /


Note that "+MultiViews" and "AddLanguage" entries. Here's how this works:

1. Instead of creating an "index.php" file, create 3 files: index.php.en, index.php.fr, index.php.php.

2. When a user hits your site (and is essentially asking for the "index.php" URI) with English as their preferred language, Apache will automatically serve the "index.php.en" file. It French is their preferred language, they will get "index.php.fr". And, if neither matches, they will get "index.php.php".

Does that make sense?

Patrick


Patrick
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sardisson
Town Crier
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Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject:

pluby wrote:
I'm probably being picky, but I noticed two issues with the French NeoWiki:

1. There are no cross-links between the English and the French NeoWiki. In other words, if you are in the English NeoWiki, there is no "French" link.


Jake doesn't have things set up correctly Smile I've been reading at the mediawiki Meta-wiki but I've yet to find all the details on how things are supposed to be set up, but wikipedia is a good example.

Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeoOffice/J and note that the sidebar indicates that the article is also available in Polish(!)

You can also have a bar on the bottom, like we have Categories now on the NeoWiki, that links to the article in another langauge, and I'll probably add that, too, when things are all working.

The problem is that none of the interwiki link syntax is working for NeoWikiFR/NeoWiki. In either, we can go [[Wikipedia:Mac OS X]] and get a link to the wikipedia's Mac OS X article. We *should* be able to do [[fr:Accueil]] and get the NeoWikiFR main page (and [[en:Main Page]] from the French wiki to get the English), or even at the most extreme [[NeoWiki:fr:Accueil]], but this doesn't work yet.

Like I said, I'm not sure of all the implementation details, but the wiki(s) can be set up in such a way that creating these linkbacks is trivial. Smile And I want this as much as Patrick; I wish I could be more helpful technically. Wikisource does this simply with namespaces; Wikipedia with full subdomains (so they get the interface localized, too, like NeoWikiFR).

Note also that links like [[Wikipedia:pl:NeoOffice/J]] get expanded to http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/pl:NeoOffice/J which in turn ends up at http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeoOffice/J, which looks like a namespace redirecting to a subdomain. (Look at http://neowiki.sixthcrusade.com/index.php/Test where I've been testing interwiki linking.)

pluby wrote:
2. When I set my browser's default language to French and go to http://neowiki.sixthcrusade.com, I do not see the French pages.


I imagine once Jake gets the interwiki linking solved, this will also be solved, or at least be trivial then Smile Maybe not.

Let's see if we can't get Jake to take off work next week and fix the wiki so we can cram and localize all the articles in French and German before Neo/J 1.1 Wink

(ducks and runs back to working on meshing Patrick's quotes with the Announcement so we can at least have that frozen to be localized before the launch Very Happy)

Smokey

_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject:

THe main issue I have right now (other than the accents) is that I have to have a full version of the wiki software for each wiki. When there are two, that isn't so bad to keep updated... I am suspecting, however, that there will be more than that.

What I would like is just a central place for the software to live.

Also, a 'Main' wiki page needs to be set up to then direct to the languages.

and all of the interwiki stuff is new to me, so i'm learning as i go, but the hope would be that there would be links between the wikis.
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject:

jakeOSX wrote:
THe main issue I have right now (other than the accents) is that I have to have a full version of the wiki software for each wiki. When there are two, that isn't so bad to keep updated... I am suspecting, however, that there will be more than that.

What I would like is just a central place for the software to live.

Also, a 'Main' wiki page needs to be set up to then direct to the languages.

and all of the interwiki stuff is new to me, so i'm learning as i go, but the hope would be that there would be links between the wikis.


Here's a thought:

If you can use subdomains, add one for english, french, etc and use the same script, but alias to a different configuration script for each, using different database prefixes.

I would guess this is how the folks at wikipedia have done it. If it is not, you might be able to ask help form Brion Vibber, a leading Mediawiki hacker who is generally quite responsive to user questions.

_________________
"What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject:

the french wiki is down at the moment. i'm trying some things. i apologize about this.

-j

edit: as the mediawiki/wikipedia sites are down for maintenance, this may be a while.
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