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trinity.neooffice.org :: View topic - NeoOffice in NZ schools
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NeoOffice in NZ schools
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What should be done about the warning in NeoOffice's FAQ?
Nothing. The warning is necessary
17%
 17%  [ 3 ]
Remove it. The warning is no longer necessary
23%
 23%  [ 4 ]
Edit it. The warning is too extreme
58%
 58%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 17

Author Message
rays
The Anomaly
(earlier version)


Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 475
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LemonAid wrote:
I tried a lot of "warnings" before I came up with "Let's be Honest Notice".


I certainly support this approach towards a solution! It would be nice to think that it could catch on with other (related?) open source projects facing the same issue. It has a really nice touch to it and, apart from that, it made me smile. Smile

I retain my preference to avoid mention of only a single alternative commercial software but at least two, especially as there is a growing number of alternative office software solutions being reviewed currently which could rate a mention.

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sardisson
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rays wrote:
I retain my preference to avoid mention of only a single alternative commercial software but at least two

The patch emails already say "Microsoft Office or Apple iWork," so that certainly seems reasonable.

Smokey

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LemonAid
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Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sardisson wrote:
rays wrote:
I retain my preference to avoid mention of only a single alternative commercial software but at least two

The patch emails already say "Microsoft Office or Apple iWork," so that certainly seems reasonable.

Smokey
Let me provide some of the reasons behind my current choices:
1. In an effort to ... KIS (Keep It Simple) I followed Patrick's lead of giving one example: Microsoft Office.
1.1 "most" new users have heard of MS Office, and
1.2 MS document formats are mentioned in the next FAQ item.
1.2.1 (note: iWork is not noted for MSO document format compability)
1.3 www.OpenOffice.org is mentioned in the previous FAQ item. That's two alternatives....
1.4 this Proposed text follows the example of other items in the FAQ.

2. It would be nice to mention NO alternatives, OR give a nice list of alternatives.
Those all take time, space, explanations, etc. It's a trade-off. Rolling Eyes
2.1 If the new User is truly looking for an alternative (usually to MS Office, or iWork),
then they can do a little bit of research. "NeoOffice may not satisfy the needs of every user...."
2.2 The FAQ is not the place to explain all the details - KIS, read the Wiki, etc.

3. I highlighted "Let's be Honest Notice: " and "like any piece of software "
text so that "readers" have a better chance of noticing that text.
3.1 The first adds a little humor, AND catches readers attention.
3.2 The second reminds the reader that this is TRUE for ALL software. Shocked

4. With readers around the world, I "tried" to avoid buzz words and overly complex English.
4.1 Should be interesting how this translated into 11 languages! Confused
4.2 A lot of the text was already in use on Trinity and/or FAQ

5. Yes, I do analyze things Waaaaaay to much! Embarassed

I tried to pattern the revised text to follow the flow of the rest of the FAQ.
This is NOT the place for lots of details - just short, quick, answers.

Many thanks for the comments and suggestions. It sounds like we are closer to what is needed.
There is no "one" best text. I hope that we find a compromise that helps NeoOffice on it's ... journey.
I updated text based on "alternatives" comments.

More suggestions??

Quote:
Who should use NeoOffice?

NeoOffice may not satisfy the needs of every user, that's up to each user to decide. NeoOffice is a good alternative for many people, providing a fully-featured set of office suite applications.
Let's be Honest Notice: NeoOffice is not perfect and like any piece of software, there many be undiscovered bugs or flaws. As our users find and report these problems, improvements and small updates are made available on a regular basis.
If you feel that you need software that has been more formally tested, we recommend that you purchase a commercially-supported product like Microsoft Office or Apple iWork.


Philip ( Your "Let's be Honest" kinda guy! Cool )

\. I grin each time a read that! Laughing
\\ I think even Patrick and Ed would grin at that statement!!
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brudge
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Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see you have thought about this a lot -- and that's great -- I don't think you're over-analyzing at all. It'd be great to get some feedback from project leads at this point to see if they agree with the direction this is taking. After all they have the ultimate decision.

My take on this latest version, with possibly unnecessary text in [square brackets] and reasoning
below:

Quote:
Who should use NeoOffice?

NeoOffice is a full-featured set of office applications. Although many people and companies use [and are happy with] NeoOffice, it may not satisfy everybody's needs. That's something each individual should decide.

NeoOffice is not perfect; Like any piece of software, there may be undiscovered bugs or flaws. As users find and report these problems, improvements and small updates are made available. If you need software that has been formally tested, we recommend that you purchase a commercially-supported product. [We recommend wikipedia's List of office suites and Comparison of office suites for a comprehensive list of alternatives.]

-NeoOffice may not satisfy the needs of every user, that's up to each user to decide.
-NeoOffice is a good alternative for many people, providing a fully-featured set of office suite applications.
+NeoOffice is a full-featured set of office applications.
+Although many people and companies use [and are happy with] NeoOffice, it may not satisfy everybody's needs.
+That's something each individual should decide.

IMHO, this reads a bit easier, and has the most important information first. I'm not sure if [and are happy with] is appropriate, necessary, or worded correctly. I'm trying to communicate that not only do people use it, but that it satisfies their needs and they are happy with it, but in only a few words.


-Let's be Honest Notice:

No offence smokey, but IMO this doesn't read easily. For me, 'notice' and 'let's be honest' don't go in the same sentence. I agree 'warning' is too extreme, and 'disclaimer' is too cold. Just 'Let's be honest' could work, but I'm not sure that anything is necessary. The following sentences communicate sincerity and honesty clearly -- I think it's unnecessary to advertise that further.


-NeoOffice is not perfect and like any piece of software, there many be undiscovered bugs or flaws.
+NeoOffice is not perfect;
+Like any piece of software, there may be undiscovered bugs or flaws.

Italics are hard to read on most screens and fonts, and statistically they aren't eye-catching, so I've used bold to encourage the user to continue reading, and limited the use of italics to the inline phrase 'Like any piece of software'. This is really trivial and even quite subjective though...


-As our users find and report these problems, improvements and small updates are made available on a regular basis.
+As these problems are found and reported, improvements and small updates are made available.

I think personal pronouns (such as 'us', 'our', 'we') in reference to NeoOffice are inappropriate. They give a personality to NeoOffice. A personality is easier to like or dislike than a mere tool. I believe users should discover NeoOffice' personality as they integrate with it's community (if they ever do), and not while researching it for the first time, or looking for a quick answer.
Keeping it simple; 'regular...' is unnecessary in this context.


-If you feel that you need software that has been more formally tested, we recommend that you purchase a commercially-supported product like Microsoft Office or Apple iWork.
+If you need software that has been formally tested, we recommend that you purchase a commercially-supported product.
+[We recommend wikipedia's List of office suites and Comparison of office suites for a comprehensive list of alternatives.]

I still think naming any specific other office suite is quite inappropriate. I think it's far better to not recommend or link to anything. If we must, then at least leave the research and decision up to the reader, by offering starters for that research. The text would link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_office_suites and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_office_suites here. I couldn't make the BBcode work...

Cheers,
Bevan/
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LemonAid
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Joined: Nov 21, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm, i LIKE it!

1. I would miss the "Let's be Honest Notice", but could live with Bevan's version.
It does cover all the items and is better English/grammar .

2. Bold is better than italics.

3. I was going to comment about "personal pronouns (such as 'us', 'our', 'we')" giving NeoOffice a personality. drat - the explanation covers it all. Crying or Very sad

4. I like the suggestion to refer to Wikipedia for "list of Office suites". Good idea.
- Because most of our users would probably be looking for a replacement for MS Office (and MSO documents) I don't think that mentioning MS Office is bad, but Wikipedia is a better idea.

This version is much larger than the current version, and might cause some problems being translated into 11 languages.
While this version does have the ... proper "Ed" disdain (yes, I had to look that up in the Mac OS X dictionary widget), I think it covers the issue in a very Clear and Honest fashion. Shocked

+1, +2, +10

Guess we should see what the ... Developers think? Rolling Eyes

Philip ( loves it when someone corrects his English grammar, and makes it MUCH better!! Cool )
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brudge
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Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your feedback Philip. I mostly tried to keep the same meaning as what you had written, but make it read easier.

Any comments about the two bits [in square brackets]? Stay? Go? Change? I'm undecided and think either way works...

B/
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LemonAid
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Joined: Nov 21, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning to you B.

It reads VERY well. I think this would be a valuable addition to the growing NeoOffice maturity.

I vote for both of the [ text ] items.
- The first adds a "little" personality. I like that! Smile
- The second link to the Wikipedia "list of Office suites" is a GREAT idea.
I'm not sure about the Wikipedia "comparisons". It seems to vague to be of much help.

I would vote Yea on everything, except the ["comparisons"]

Thanks for your help and editing assistance.
I think we have something that we can all be proud to refer new users to read.
(bad english, sorry I'm in a rush! Wink )

Comments?

Philip ( Long May the (Neo) Code Reign! Wink )
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brudge
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, thank you! Smile

Pat? Ed?
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LemonAid
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to be rude, but I wonder what Patrick and Ed think of these proposed changes. Rolling Eyes

I understand that NeoOffice does NOT need a flood of new users with demanding expectations, but I would like Neo to be the best product our little community can provide, and support.

It's minor adjustments like this (and Akua icons, splash pages, and native Aqua dialogs, etc.) that help make Neo the BEST choice for the Mac community. I'm here for just that reason. Very Happy

If we are really far off base in what has been purposed I would appreciate hearing about it.

Philip ( LMT(N)CR Wink )
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brudge
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Waiting for feedback...
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LemonAid
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Moved Reply with quote

Moved to Random Whatnot.

Philip ( ever get that feeling that you are talking to ... yourself? Wink )
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OPENSTEP
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Posts: 4752
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I do appreciate the attention given to this and the motivating reasons for it, at the present time we are not interested in changing the bug and crashing disclaimer. Patrick and I thought we already had placed iWork in the disclaimers, but it does appear we don't have that in the online FAQ. We'll add that in. I'm really not interested in trying to improve our Cuddly Factor. If people are afraid to deal with reailty they can always go to OOo & Sun.

ed
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brudge wrote:
I think everyone agrees that NeoOffice is a great piece of software. I think everyone agrees (or accepts) that it's not perfect. My point is that the warning gives the wrong message to some people. People who don't understand open source or software development understand that warning to mean "NeoOffice is awful. You should use Microsoft Office instead".

I agree that it's great to admit that NeoOffice isn't perfect, but it's even greater to have a bit of pride in the great piece of software that it is.

To do that, we need to use language and concepts that non-programmers and school teachers understand, like "NeoOffice is great for .... However occasionally it may not operate as expected". This lets the reader decide if NeoOffice is what they need. And doesn't tell every non-programmer that NeoOffice is crap and MS Office is better -- which is what they currently understand from the warning.


Agreed.
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OPENSTEP
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The disclaimer will be rephrased as I indicated above. It's not up for a vote, so sorry.

Listen philly boy/gal, this is the second topic you've posted to where you really haven't read what we have to say. Please be more aware and don't make me IP ban Pennsylvannia.

ed
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OPENSTEP wrote:
The disclaimer will be rephrased as I indicated above. It's not up for a vote, so sorry.

Listen philly boy/gal, this is the second topic you've posted to where you really haven't read what we have to say. Please be more aware and don't make me IP ban Pennsylvannia.

ed


Come on, that's just stupid...
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