This is in the very early stages of development, but I'm hoping there's a person or two who could take it out for a swing and see how it's working. This would be a favor to me, mostly, but also a peek at what is coming.
Here's the deal:
It only works with version 2.0 of OpenOffice, which means you need the X windows version of it. You can get here if you don't already have it installed:
http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/2.0.x.html
It also requires TK, which is shipped with Tiger (10.4) but would have to be installed on earlier versions of the OS (it is free, however.)
So, thanks. Further instructions (for the brave) are in the included readme.
I'm keen to suppport your innovation now. I hope we ccan push forward and help to create an attractive look for the program.
Eric, it seems to me that there is little interest in this topic on the board at mac-digest@porting.openoffice.org. I've been following the discussions there for the past month or so. There has been only one post on icons in that time - mine - and there were *no* responses. As they say, it went over like a lead balloon. I can take a hint this was obviously "off-topic" for the others in the group. On the other hand, there's been keen and active discussion on Trinity for a long-time, trying to get a more attractive interface. Perhaps that represents different interests: the X11 group is much more focussed on getting a reliable product which works well. That is critical.
On the other hand, among the coders and developers on trinity you also have people like me, end-users, people who may have little to offer in terms of coding skills. But we do want a project that not only works, but that people will *want* to use, because it looks good, modern, etc. Vive la difference? [I have never studied Frech, although I'd love to learn...] I would think that it's not important whether they are active on trinity, or on mac-digest@porting.openoffice.org, or on another openoffice.org forum, provided that they are welcomed, and people are keen on what they are doing. Is there a group on openoffice.org which has demonstrated an interest in this topic, as this board has done?
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: only some icons work
Brett,
Is the reason only a few icons in Crystal Plus work, because of the different naming conventions in 1.x vs 2.0? I hope so. Having renamed most of the Crystal Plus set back to 1.x forms, it would be easy to regress, since Crystal Plus is basically Nuno Pinheiro's et al set for openoffice.org [therein maybe lies your answer to the licensing issue, Eric - at least for this set we know that it was *designed* to go with OpenOffice.org 2.0, with appropriate licenses,. I'll have a look at that in the next hour.
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: Getting it running
Like a goose, I spent some time working out I needed to cd to the folder before running it. Then I had to rename the folder withput the space between Visual and Neo for some reason, so that it would reognise it. Then i got this
Macintosh:~ peter$ cd /Users/peter/Desktop/VisualNeoIconer-PreAlpha/
Macintosh:~/Desktop/VisualNeoIconer-PreAlpha peter$ wish NeoIconerBase.tk
Application initialization failed: no display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable
Error in startup script: invalid command name "wm"
while executing
"wm title . "Visual NeoIconer""
(file "NeoIconerBase.tk" line 6
Macintosh:~/Desktop/VisualNeoIconer-PreAlpha peter$
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: Re: only some icons work
aussie149 wrote:
Brett,
Is the reason only a few icons in Crystal Plus work, because of the different naming conventions in 1.x vs 2.0? I hope so. Having renamed most of the Crystal Plus set back to 1.x forms, it would be easy to regress, since Crystal Plus is basically Nuno Pinheiro's et al set for openoffice.org [therein maybe lies your answer to the licensing issue, Eric - at least for this set we know that it was *designed* to go with OpenOffice.org 2.0, with appropriate licenses,. I'll have a look at that in the next hour.
Peter
If you print out the list of those that work from CrystalPlus, and compare them to the progress list of icons for OpenOffice.org at http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/ooo/icons/status/
you will find all 23 on that list. I would be wlling to bet that none of the hundreds of other icons in the CrystalPlus set have a name the same as those at that website. That website refers to icons named for OpenOffice.org 2.0, whereas Crystal Plus used the OpenOffice.org 1.x naming conventions, and they almost completely changed between OpenOffice.org versions.
I won't develop the actual icons. I mean, someday I'll make my own, but they'll probably be called "Epileptic Stick Figures." I just don't have the skills.
What I am making is developer tools, to make it easy for people with less technical skills but better visual ones to make great icons.
NeoIconer is released under the GNU License 2.0.. It says so in the code, and when I have a proper readme, it will say as much in there (as it does in all my 0.8.x versions.)
ericbachard wrote:
2) why not contribute directly for OpenOffice.org ?
Because I use a Macintosh, and they apparently do not.
Seriously, though, I'm working in a common tool language. It would be trivial to port this to Linux and Solaris. Windows probably wouldn't be too bad, either. I might give them a try when I get that third hand installed.
I had seen that, Peter. In fact, that's where I grabbed the CrystalPlus icons from. Excellent work. It is really nice to be working in a group where good things are happening.
aussie149 wrote:
I'm keen to suppport your innovation now. I hope we can push forward and help to create an attractive look for the program.
Excellent. It would be seriously nice to have a new look for 2.0. And keeping in pace with OOo...
aussie149 wrote:
s the reason only a few icons in Crystal Plus work, because of the different naming conventions in 1.x vs 2.0? I hope so. Having renamed most of the Crystal Plus set back to 1.x forms, it would be easy to regress
This is exactly it. I just wrote a version that stripped away everything that didn't work by default, because all I really needed was a way to test the program.
If you have any sort of conversion list, csv, or sxc, I'd love to get my hands on it, as one of the things I'm planning on making is a quick script to convert old sets to new ones (less work for everyone).
I've actually been getting some help from Kendy on this version, so I have to give him a quick mention. As well as a couple of the OOo folks.
It is fairly exciting to hear you talk about getting other icons sets ready for this tool. Here's something really important about this new tool:
The old tool (NeoIconer 0.8.x) was an extension of the work originally done by Rohit Kaul. That tool used the OOo end-user customization feature, more or less hot-wiring the program. This has worked fine for development, but has limited the program to the 'toy' level (as best shown by it's inabilty to replace the 'New Document' icons.)
The new tool (NeoIconer 0.9+) changes the icons directly within the program, and it can also produce files that can be checked directly into CVS. This means any icon work can be included in the shipping version of the program with just a few mouse clicks.
Even more exciting, Kendy is optimistic that program-level icons switching is coming to OOo (he thinks with version 2.02, which is very soon). Right now, OOo only has native support for switching between large and small, so you have to replace one of these sets to install a new one. But with real icon switching, not only can can we include our icons alongside the original ones, but any icon set built with NeoIconer will be installable in any version of OOo on any platform as a theme.
That's my target for this program. Call it a New Year's resolution.
Okay, enough grandstanding.
Peter, I'm guessing by the hour of your postings you really are in Australia (not to surprised.) I'm over on the east coast of North America, which is pretty close to the other side of the world. If you happen to be online right now, I'd love to know a few things about your system, starting with what version of OS X your running.
Meanwhile I'm going to take a closer look at what might be going on (after breakfast.) I appreciate the help, as I have a pretty limited development environment these days (read: one machine, and that one has to be used for all aspects of my life so I can't do too many radical things on it.)
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Getting it running
aussie149 wrote:
Like a goose, I spent some time working out I needed to cd to the folder before running it. Then I had to rename the folder withput the space between Visual and Neo for some reason, so that it would reognise it. Then i got this
Macintosh:~ peter$ cd /Users/peter/Desktop/VisualNeoIconer-PreAlpha/
Macintosh:~/Desktop/VisualNeoIconer-PreAlpha peter$ wish NeoIconerBase.tk
Application initialization failed: no display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable
Error in startup script: invalid command name "wm"
while executing
"wm title . "Visual NeoIconer""
(file "NeoIconerBase.tk" line 6
Macintosh:~/Desktop/VisualNeoIconer-PreAlpha peter$
In a word, help
Peter
Peter
First of all, I apologize for not giving clearer instructions about how to start the program. You'll be pleased to know that (probably starting with the next version) this should a run out of the folder application, without any need for terminal.
But, for the moment, we still need the terminal to debug this.
I've done a bunch of seaching around within my build, and there seems to be a number of different versions of wish installed. Not sure where they all came from, but I want to know exactly which version you are running. To do this, type:
which wish
And hit enter. You should get a response like:
/usr/bin/wish
But let me know what it says. Then I want you to just type
wish
Which should start a generic wish session, assuming it doesn't give you display errors (in which case, we can be sure it's something within the TK installation that is broken.) Go to the wish application in the folder and click on the menu item "Wish", select the "About Wish" option, this should give you versions for both the version of TK and TCL that the default is using. I'd like to know what they are.
Last but not least, I'd like to know what version of OS X you are using. All of this information should help me in reproducing the problem and hopefully fixing it.
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: Wish etc
Hi Brett,
Yes I really am in Oz, in sunny Adelaide. Sorry I took so long to get back, it's been a busy-ish weekend. Anyway., here's what I havee to report so far:
When I ran which wish and wish i got this
Macintosh:~ peter$ which wish
/sw/bin/wish
Macintosh:~ peter$ wish
Application initialization failed: no display name and no $DISPLAY environment variable
% Macintosh:~ peter$
I was running bash, I believe [is that an issue?]. I changed that to tcsh and when i ran wish it opened a "wish shell"
So then I went back and tried to run NeoIconer again. Thie time I had half a second of ecitement when a blue "NeoIconer" sign flashed up, followed by this error message;
Error in startup script: cp: /Applications/OpenOffice.org 2.0.app/Contents/openoffice.org2.0/share/config/images.original.zip: No such file or directory
while executing
"exec cp $OOdir$sourceFile ./images.zip"
(procedure "buildImagesDir" line
invoked from within
"buildImagesDir"
invoked from within
"if { [file isdirectory .images] } {
} else {
writeOutput "Setting up initial images directory (might take a while.) "
buildImagesDir
}"
(file "NeoIconerBase.tk" line 325)
[Macintosh:~/Desktop/Visual NeoIconer-PreAlpha] peter%
So I am going to look for the relevant folder in OpenOffice.org 2.0. and see how I go from there.
As to your other quetions, I am using 10.4.4. I appear to have Wish Shell 8.5. I do appear to have both tcl 8.5 AND tcl 8.4 in the relevant frameworks library; no, unfortunately i don't have a conversion program, I changed each icon in 2.0 to the [seemingly] correspoding icon in 1.1/1.2 manully, using the slotlist from NeoIconer as my reference point - and Kendy to check some.
I agree it's exciting to be working on this at this point, partic. with what you are aiming to do, and with that intriguing teaser
Quote:
"Kendy is optimistic that program-level icons switching is coming to OOo "
Good luck. I am now going to investigate OpenOffice.org 2.0.app to see where that missing file went.
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: Re: Wish etc
aussie149 wrote:
Hi Brett,
this error message;
Error in startup script: cp: /Applications/OpenOffice.org 2.0.app/Contents/openoffice.org2.0/share/config/images.original.zip: No such file or directory
while executing
"exec cp $OOdir$sourceFile ./images.zip"
(p
What is in that file is
wizard
webcast
symbol
soffice.cfg
psetupl.xpm
psetup.xpm
javavendors.xml
images_crystal.zip
images_crystal
images.zip
Because I think that was the version of OpenOffice.org 2.0 I was forcing to run with Crystal icons by remving the others. So next step is to locate the images.zip file in a different version 2.0133 and rename that to 2.0 and...OK that worked! Now I have the NeoIconer menu screen up in front of me.
So maybe bash was my problem, then the mucking around I had done with config file in 2.0/.../share/config
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: Re: Icons for NeoOffice 2.0
berchca wrote:
So it's never too early to start thinking about this, I do seriously want to target 2.0 for an OS X set of toolbar icons.
This is in the very early stages of development, but I'm hoping there's a person or two who could take it out for a swing and see how it's working. This would be a favor to me, mostly, but also a peek at what is coming.
.
_brett
Hi again Brett et al [at least I hope "al" are out there, listening.
I now have it running. I got one error message, about "permission denied", so I navigated to the "/config file" and changed the permission of that file - and its contents - to allow me to read and write. Then the program ran ok, but it doesn't apear to be changing anything: I always end up with Crystal icons [and a reasonably full set of Crystal icons], which was the selection I had made before running the program. I don't know X11 programs: do they have a pref. file I could delete to stop this happening?
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Icons for NeoOffice 2.0
Hey Peter,
Sorry about leaving you all alone during this, I'm afraid that's gonna be the way it is, Time Zone-wise: one of us deep in sleep while the other is online. I am heading back to the West Coast early next week, so that will bring us a little closer, but it's still a way off.
Firstly, thanks for persevering. In my own experiments, I have learned that TK is an extremely temperamental beast, that seems to work completely differently in even the most minor of version-changes. I might think about switching to Perl, though I'm less impressed with its visual interface.
What I think was happening is: You have a version of TK installed by Fink/FinkCommander, perhaps even by default. That's the version that was running out of bash. I would suspect that the difference between bash and tcsh is that if you did "which wish" under tsch, it would say:
/usr/bin/wish
which is the version included in Mac OS X. Of course, NeoIconer needs to be able to deal with variences like this, I'll get that change into the next version. In the meantime, you should have the option of running the program out of bash by typing:
/usr/bin/wish NeoIconerBase.tk
In fact, if you don't mind, I'd love it if you would test that theory.
aussie149 wrote:
Because I think that was the version of OpenOffice.org 2.0 I was forcing to run with Crystal icons by removing the others. So next step is to locate the images.zip file in a different version 2.0133 and rename that to 2.0 and...OK that worked! Now I have the NeoIconer menu screen up in front of me
So I didn't even know you could force openoffice to accept a substitute version of an images.zip file that way. I'll make sure NeoIconer accounts for this in the future. I also might take advantage of this, but I think I'll wait to see what OOo produces in the icon-switching department.
aussie149 wrote:
I now have it running. I got one error message, about "permission denied", so I navigated to the "/config file" and changed the permission of that file - and its contents - to allow me to read and write. Then the program ran ok, but it doesn't apear to be changing anything: I always end up with Crystal icons [and a reasonably full set of Crystal icons], which was the selection I had made before running the program. I don't know X11 programs: do they have a pref. file I could delete to stop this happening?
Hrm, not to ask dumb questions, but does this mean you have the Crystal Icons installed and you are trying to install crystal icons with NeoIconer? Anyway, a shot in the dark: do you have "Large Icons" selected within open office? If so, try it with "Small icons" and see if that does it(within OOo, sadly the "icon size" switches in NeoIconer don't work yet.)
I really wasn't prepared for someone with a customized OOo like yours is. I mean, it's great that it is, I just haven't really done any of the work to accommodate that.
aussie149 wrote:
I changed each icon in 2.0 to the [seemingly] corresponding icon in 1.1/1.2 manully, using the slotlist from NeoIconer as my reference point
I apologize for obsoleting this work so quickly. If I had taken this approach a while ago, this re-working wouldn't be necessary. Sadly, however, I think I'm only now familiar enough with how all this works to do something like on this scale.
Anyway, I would love to get my hands on the Crystal set you had before converting the names. Is it one of the files on your website?
Lastly, to anyone else tuned into this, I'll probably get a version of NeoIconer out early in the week that addresses what we're learning here, so you might as well wait to see what that one does...
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Icons for NeoOffice 2.0
aussie149 wrote:
Hi again Brett et al [at least I hope "al" are out there, listening.]
<edit>
Cheers
Peter
I don't know about "Al" but I'm listening.
I don't understand it all but I'm listening. Once all the problems are worked out, this all sounds pretty exciting! Thank you (both! ) SO much for all your efforts. I really enjoy having the CrystalPlus icons with NeoOffice.
Keep up the GREAT efforts. I'm sure "Al' is interested too!
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this was obviously "off-topic" for the others in the group. On the other hand, there's been keen and active discussion on Trinity for a long-time, trying to get a more attractive interface. Perhaps that represents different interests: the X11 group is much more focussed on getting a reliable product which works well. That is critical.
)
Thanks for the words of encouragement, Al.