"They" almost reached an agreement to do what's best for OOo users as a whole. It's actually kinda of funny. Quote: We need to do these ... steps for Mac, but let's not do them because ...?
Philip (Not going to give up my day job ... yet! )
You want a real diatribe? Watch what is happening between Pavel and me. It is almost ludicrious. I have over 25 years of programming experience and I can read a build log....
BTW, I mean that I support both OpenOffice.org and NeoOffice because I want the best user experience. I have done all sorts of software testing and I work as a Systems Engineer in my 'real job'. I have to deal with the deadhead decisions of those who make some really wild purchasing decisions.
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject:
James,
I did real the diatribe between Pavel and you. I was ... amazed (dismayed ). I've seen some of your work, your building efforts, results of your efforts both at NeoOffice and OOo. I've read many of your messages, on both boards. I've seen your bonafides.
I don't know the experience and skills of some of the others involved. I don't understand all the reasons given at OOo. Those that have skills and experience being ignored by a ... few.
I don't quite understand, or maybe I don't "want" to understand. I've been an Engineer, programmer, and Systems Analyst & Administator for over 35 years. I'd rather solve technical problems and (try to) avoid the b.s.
I'm here because I believe in the efforts of the NeoOffice team. I can see their ... bonafides.
Philip (It's NOT bragging if you can do what you say you can! )
I did real the diatribe between Pavel and you. I was ... amazed (dismayed ). I've seen some of your work, your building efforts, results of your efforts both at NeoOffice and OOo. I've read many of your messages, on both boards. I've seen your bonafides.
I don't know the experience and skills of some of the others involved. I don't understand all the reasons given at OOo. Those that have skills and experience being ignored by a ... few.
I think there is an underlying reason that Pavel will not work on NeoOffice, and that is purely financial. He makes money supporting OpenOffice.org and if it were to go away, his means of support goes away. Too bad. I support Patrick with my time and resouces, something that Pavel is unwilling to do in the past and it appears to remain that way for the future.
LemonAid wrote:
I don't quite understand, or maybe I don't "want" to understand. I've been an Engineer, programmer, and Systems Analyst & Administator for over 35 years. I'd rather solve technical problems and (try to) avoid the b.s.
I'm here because I believe in the efforts of the NeoOffice team. I can see their ... bonafides.
Yep. I've been in the hunt for a job. I've turned down one job because of where it is located and the length of time I would be away from my family. I had to stop a job interview before it began as I don't have the skill set for the job. And I'm still working where I am and my manager knows that I'm looking for a new job. Why? No money to carry me through. However, if funds do become available, I will stay. Why? Because I like the job, the folks I'm working with, and the company I work for. This is why I stick with NeoOffice (hey Patrick/Ed/Dan W./et. al. I actually like you folks. I don't know enough of the real OpenOffice.org folks to really make a decision about them, but most of the Mac OS X porting team is working together. Sadly, there are a few of them that will not listen to reason, and they wasted a lot of programmers time where they could have been making headway on a true Aqua port. Some folks have to learn the hard way.
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject:
James,
Best of luck in your job hunt. We just had a 50% staff reduction (cute words? ). I get to do a whole lot more paperwork and ... endless meetings to pick up others tasks. Just barely missed being ... reduced.
I sure do appreciate all your efforts for OOo and NeoOffice. Somedays I just have to remember that everone has their own agendas.
Philip (Looking forward the NeoOffice 2.x (When it comes!) )
Best of luck in your job hunt. We just had a 50% staff reduction (cute words? ). I get to do a whole lot more paperwork and ... endless meetings to pick up others tasks. Just barely missed being ... reduced.
What do the British call this: redundency. I watch and wonder what all of the experienced Systems Analysts are going to do. I've seen folks leave this career field and end up driving a semi (for the British: articulated lorry.)
LemonAid wrote:
I sure do appreciate all your efforts for OOo and NeoOffice. Somedays I just have to remember that everone has their own agendas.
That is correct. Some folks agendas no where match with others. However, I seen an interesting question about using Pavel's updates to the i10n (Internationalization) code in NeoOffice. If his code is GPL, he is up a creek without a paddle. If the Perl integration script is GPL, all it takes is rebuilding the files he uses (and that has to be done by someone who NEVER has put there hands on his code for copywrite reasons (Think Tandy vs. IBM in the early 1980s and you understand).) Otherwise, we will have to work through the issues, and we will.
BTW, I'm doing a pre-NeoOffice 2.x build right now. I'm working through the issues presented by it and making sure that it will build on Tiger with gcc 4.0.1 (XCode 2.2)
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject:
Pfft, I haven't read it, but whatever. My care-o-meter for the politics within OOo is spent. Everyone and their friend does something, then you have Louis/Collabnet posturing to continue maintaining his name in the contract with Sun, Sun posturing against IBM/Workspace, RedHat/Novell posturing against Sun & IBM, Apple in this amorphous non-public position...
Screw it. Patrick and I have been much more successful axing all of the politics. Granted, it's always easier dealing with politics in your own little world rather than someone else's, but at least we're not playing pieces being shoved around in some corporate agendas beyond our control. We can ban whomever the hell we want
Pfft, I haven't read it, but whatever. My care-o-meter for the politics within OOo is spent. Everyone and their friend does something, then you have Louis/Collabnet posturing to continue maintaining his name in the contract with Sun, Sun posturing against IBM/Workspace, RedHat/Novell posturing against Sun & IBM, Apple in this amorphous non-public position...
I like that. This is what I've been trying to get through some of the thick skulled folks over at the OpenOffice.org fora. Sun could care less whether or not the Mac OS X port is successful or if it falls on its theorical ass. Right now there is probably someone in Hamburg with a big old feces eating grin because of the problems encountered trying to use Cocoa and ObjC to build an Aqua interface. I just have a 'Told you so' attitude at this point.
OPENSTEP wrote:
Screw it. Patrick and I have been much more successful axing all of the politics. Granted, it's always easier dealing with politics in your own little world rather than someone else's, but at least we're not playing pieces being shoved around in some corporate agendas beyond our control. We can ban whomever the hell we want
And as a famous Rock Star with long hair says on his radio show: "Good for you." It is always much easier to deal with politics when the group is small and only one or two people control who is in the 'gang'. I've found some of the attitudes here helpful, some not. And this is the WAY IT SHOULD BE. I stumbled around with my first OpenOffice.org build until I found the fixes from Patrick. Then things became way easier. Of course, not a soul at OpenOffice was willing to help... Patrick and you are way more helpful and I like that.
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). I've seen some of your work, your building efforts, results of your efforts both at NeoOffice and OOo. I've read many of your messages, on both boards. I've seen your bonafides.
