Thoughts on the "Early Release Program"

[static]

Hi guys!

I've been slowly leafing through various threads here, getting myself acquainted with this forum and its users, and the mac community in general, when I read the details of the alpha release and subscription plan, etc. To be honest I didn't read all 13 pages, but I justed wanted to comment on a few things outside that thread, lest it go on forever in hot debate.

First - To state the [almost] obvious:

NeoOffice is quickly gaining in popularity for two reasons: Word of mouth about the quality and functionality/features of the software, but also the fact that the number of mac users in general is growing exponentially. Additionally, everyone loves a product they can simply download.

I agree with some that restricting the use of the binaries might help gain project revenue vs corporate cheapskates, and with others that it not be a great idea, due mostly to the fact that the GLP'd code can easily be compiled and distributed anyway. Zealots will end up doing that just to spite attempts to control open source software (binaries included). I understand what you're trying to do, and I like the direction you decided to take after all the discussion in that thread.

I have often noticed a wide-spread respect throughout the open source community, usually translating into donations whether or not you ask for them. The point to most of this post is this: I have noticed that the most successful ways of receiving monetary support from the community at large have been offering extras for those who donate, rather than penalties to those who don't.

I have personally donated a total of about $500 to various open source projects over time - always depending on how mature not only the project was, but also the developers and community behind the scenes. This is the first project I would also be interested in donating time to. [I'm starting to think I might be better suited to documentation than debugging!] I especially appreciate the willingness of pluby and others here to take into account suggestions from the user-base; even when the suggestion comes from what slashdotters call an Anonymous Coward! In any case, this type of mutual respect does not go unnoticed - so all around, keep up the good work!

I'm not sure if replies are necessary - I just wanted to voice my support for the project overall.

Cheers,
static

[OPENSTEP]

Thanks for the kind words. Yeah, there's a lot of material that flew around and is still flying around w.r.t. EAP. Now that it's in progress, I think it's going along really well. From the fund raising aspect, it's been good and it looks like it's going to build a solid foundation to allow Patrick to keep on working full time through final (yay!). It seems that most folk who decided to donate through the program are quite helpful and are pretty active in reporting problems they encounter, donating time and patience as well. The level of activity in just trying to isolate what's causing what problem is quite high and definitely appreciated. Another amazing thing has been Patrick's nonstop work to resolve these issues and has done a phenomenal amount of work not only in preparing for EAP but also to support everyone who's participating. Sometimes the turnaround time is even less than a day from report to feedback to test patch!

Originally I had thought of trying to do some type of fund drive and EAP was the final result, but it's turned out to be a bit more than just a fund drive. It's somehow created this vibe for users and developers that's been quite productive. I don't know how, but it feels like it's different this time around. I just wish I didn't have this pesky job thing that puts a dent in my bugfixing time

ed

[static]

I know what you mean regarding the job! Feel free to hit me up for ideas or any other help you may need.

I'm trying to read through the gdb site but it's so hard to get through - the examples are awful. Is there any other way or program I can use to squash bugs? If you have a minute sometime, could you perhaps PM me with the method you use for debugging - even if it's using gdb? Reading manuals isn't my best learning method - generally someone tells me how, I try it, I teach myself, then I slowly master it.

I really want to help but don't know if I can stomach that gdb online doc!

[edit] BTW, I do have a lot of programming experience, including some debugging, just not much (by way of debugging) - so don't be afraid that I'm asking to have my hand held! I just don't get the examples they use on their site. Maybe you could recommend a book you read? That would even be better...

[OPENSTEP]

Hmm...unfortunatley gdb really is the only debugger on OS X. Even XCode and CodeWarrior are just front ends for GDB.

You may actually be able to actually try poking around with XCode as I think it has had the ability to attach onto an arbitrary executable for a few years. I'm not sure if it requires a project or not...

XCode > Debug > Attach

Look for "soffice.bin" in the list.

Note that Neo & OOo do not build using XCode, so the internal nagivation features of the IDE (class browser, jumping to definition, etc.) most likely won't work, but the visual debugger may be able to grab on and display the stack and maybe locals at least. Not sure about breakpoints, but I suspect they should work. You may have to open up the gdb console from within XCode and set "pending" breakpoints if shared libraries haven't yet loaded (e.g. the gdb command "b salgdi.cxx:23" sets a breakpoint when line 23 of salgdi.cxx is encountered even if libvcl hasn't loaded yet). I'm not sure if XCode needs a "project" to coordinate setting a breakpoint in an editor window with the debugger.

I usually wind up going to gdb from the command line more out of habit. There also may be some other gdb front ends...I think "ddd" was the name of one of them, but I don't know if any have OS X ports.

ed

[Max_Barel]

As I was not online in time to comment on the main thread on EAP, I'll use this one.

IMO, the only one long term model to fundraise the project will be to find a way fo NeoJ to become shareware/nagware (low fee / large spread).
Dont ask me about liability, there are comments about Macgimp stating that it can be done.

EAP is not cool for us, testers/helpers.

Please take it just as it is, a comment, not a rant.

[Samwise]

I know it's just a detail, but still, NeoOffice is no longer called NeoOffice/J since version 1.2.

[jakeOSX]

[OPENSTEP]

Yeah, I definitely know about the problems with the EAP concept w.r.t. testers & other contributors. The real problem is trying to come up with a "litmus test" for who would qualify and all of the politics that would obviously ensue We just couldn't come up with any workable solution in time, especially one that can integrate with the backend stuff managing the subscriptions.

ed

[Max_Barel]

[OPENSTEP]

It took me a long time to drop the J myself, but ironically you wouldn't believe how much easier it is to no longer have a path separator in the name

ed

[Samwise]

Well, I think it only took me a few days to get the new name right once I saw the change, but I didn't realize there was a new name before a few weeks, so I kept using the wrong name for quite a while too ...

[sardisson]

In all fairness to Max (who has been a member here for longer than I have been running Mac OS X ), when he disappeared to get his new house in order, NeoOffice/J 1.1 was still the current release and app name; now he comes back and we're on NeoOffice 2.0!

Smokey

[jakeOSX]

well, i was a proponent of dropping the /j long before it did...

i even left it out of the website graphics