Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 9:21 pm Post subject:
Patrick, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...but...
I don't think that the 1.4.2 update should affect NeoJ users. NeoJ uses the 1.3 VM. Here's why...
The 1.3 VM was the last one that was Carbon based. Starting with 1.4, Apple moved to a Cocoa based VM. And this introduced a number of regressions for AWT apps. Some apps that had complex user interface operations, like Forte/NetBeans, just wouldn't run under 1.4 due to all of the regressions. Apple, unlike other people that don't understand Java, made it possible to install more then one version of the Java VM on a machine at a time. Additionally, they made the system "intelligent" and allowed applications to choose which version of the VM they wanted to use, even down into sub-versions.
NeoJ continues to use 1.3 on Panther systems, the one where it runs correctly. Essentially, it, and Apple, were smart enough to make a way that it could still run irregardless of bugs they introduced with 1.4.
The 1.4.2 update shouldn't affect NeoJ users...but...hopefully it fixes some of the really core nagging issues from the Carbon to Cocoa transition that will help NeoJ (and other complex Java applications) run on 1.4
Forgive my ignorance if this is an obvious question. Concerning have two VM's running on the same machine... did NeoOffice install the 1.3 VM? Or was it already there?
Not that I intend on doing this, but if I were to delete NeoOffice, how would this affect the 1.3 VM?
Forgive my ignorance if this is an obvious question. Concerning have two VM's running on the same machine... did NeoOffice install the 1.3 VM? Or was it already there?
Not that I intend on doing this, but if I were to delete NeoOffice, how would this affect the 1.3 VM?
By default, Apple bundles Java 1.3.1 with both Mac OS X 10.2 and 10.3. Deleting your NeoOffice/J installation directory will have no affect on Java 1.3.1.
I knew that Neo/J selects to use only 1.3. I created the bug report reqesting upgrade to 1.4 in bugzilla. Was hoping that Patrick would try 1.4.2 and post whether it's fixed the issues noted in bugzilla. Perhaps it would also help fix the scroll wheel bug.
We can always use improved performance and capability in Neo/J. Plus, being a Sun person, I'm always encouraging use of the latest JVM in products.
Even if Java 1.4.2 fixes any problems (and I have my doubts since IMHO Apple has pushed out big bugs in every release of Java so far), I still need to support Java 1.3.1 since 1.4.2 is only available for Panther and 1.4.1 was only available as an update for Jaguar.
So, to upgrade to Java 1.4.2 would mean that NeoJ would need to support 3 JVM version instead of just one. That sounds like an excellent way for to nver have any time to earn a living.
That's too bad that Apple hasn't provided good upward compatibility. In addition, I notice from a number of the bug fixes that they tend to reach into the JVM making your code relatively JVM specific.
I fully understand you lack of desire to keep up with all of Apple's various bugs in addition to putting out a great product of your own.
Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 12:28 pm Post subject: scroll wheel support?
Hello,
I'm far from an expert, but I couldn't resist commenting here. From my limited, end-user perspective, I would say the only real feature lacking from NeoOffice that precludes it from going beta is scroll wheel support (bugs aside). I believe Java 1.4.2 has scroll wheel support. Regarding supporting three releases, if you were to ask Steve Jobs, he would say that Panther is the future, so might suggest dropping support for earlier JVMs. I myself finally broke down and bought Panther only a few weeks ago (after getting the advice from a friend who is a CS prof. who's been running it).
Now, I'm sure its a big task to adapt NeoOffice to the new JVM, but unless these new versions of the JVM are so bug-ridden to make them unusable, I would say that its the thing to do because it would give a necessary feature that's not going to be able to be implemented right now. (Yeah, yeah, I know Mac-purists say Macs are supposed to have a one button mouse, but that's crazy-talk).
FWIW,
Andrew
P.S. I like NeoOffice, because its quite simply it has the best on-screen rendering I've seen in a word-processor, much better than the rendering on the version of MSO that I have. You're doing a great job!
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