Joined: Apr 25, 2006 Posts: 2315 Location: Montpellier, France
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:30 am Post subject:
Quote:
2) this was another Windows-ism; whereas on the Mac we just grey out "Undo" and "Redo" when they're not available, Windows seems to change the menu item name (and tooltip) instead of simply disabling the item.
Well, this is news to me; I've never encountered such behavior in Windows, or in Windows applications (which I have used for quite some time before I switched to the Mac). ?
Well, this is news to me; I've never encountered such behavior in Windows, or in Windows applications (which I have used for quite some time before I switched to the Mac). ?
WinWord does this and maybe Excel and PowerPoint also
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: Licences/Licenses
djpimley wrote:
I like the look of what Punto_Mac's created so far and if it can be made GPL then it's a very promising start to a complete Aqua set. Maybe I can help out in future, it's really up to Punto_Mac since this is his gig.
I was just having another look at those pinstripe icons that have just been released. It strikes me that, if some of the Akua set are subject to Apple licencing issues, then a number of those pinstripe icons might replace them. Several of them are in the same or similar style to the iWork set, Edit: and could be modified to suit the Aqua look more
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Last edited by aussie149 on Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jun 11, 2006 Posts: 481 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:42 am Post subject:
It's all very subjective but I'd say that the pinstripe set and even more so the tango set, have the cartoon candy coloured style of XP and GTK. I agree with Smokey that the undo icon form Punto_Mac's set is very GTK/Gnome but most of the set achieves the elusive Aqua quality very well.
I think this just goes to show 1) how subjective this issue is, and 2) how difficult it is to create a unified style for hundreds of icons, a task that is only made more difficult if we start cherry picking from other icon sets.
Wise man say "The problem with shortcuts is that we risk losing our way. The path of Aqua is a long hard road, but in the end we will be rewarded if we don't stray from the path."
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject:
djpimley wrote:
"The problem with shortcuts is that we risk losing our way. The path of Aqua is a long hard road, but in the end we will be rewarded if we don't stray from the path."
A brave declaration. The results are potentially terrific. If I can lend a hand with low-level tasks to let you two get on with the designing, let me know.
The latest set from Punto Mac, the "Akua Prerelease" icons, are all his own work, so there's no Apple issue there at all.
(The issue is that the current license for them, the Free Art License, is incompatible with the GPL--that license is fine for stand-alone art, but not for art to be incorporated into GPL software. But as long as Punto Mac is amenable to changing the license, or dual-licensing them, there's no real license issue.)
My least favorite of the Pinstripe icons are the four most prominent ones, actually: back, forward, stop, reload Since the goal of Pinstripe and Winstripe were to create a set of icons that were unified across platforms but also somewhat platform-specific, it stands to reason that there are XP and GTK bits/influences in Pinstripe (and Aqua ones in Winstripe; I recall a lot of complaints from Windows users that Winstripe icons looked too much like Mac OS X!) Tango, driven even more strongly by that same goal, has the same failings, IMO.
My thoughts on this are thus: if we want, for NeoOffice 2.0 final, to get rid of the yellow folder icons (in addition to the filepicker icons replaced "currently") and the last 3 icons in the Preferences (which look horrible in comparison to the newly-replaced one), then taking things from Pinstripe is fine as a short-term solution for a couple of icons that look horribly out-of-place.
Long term, I agree with Daniel: we need one unified set created from scratch by one/a small number of designers, inspired by the best of Apple's and other top-notch Aqua iconographers' work.
I really need to try running with Punto Mac's set (despite my aversion to the large size icons), but my first impressions just from browsing the icons in the Finder is that they are by-and-large very good and nicely Aqua, with just the Undo/Redo looking out of place/too GNOMEy (there's not enough "curve" in it, or something, in comparison to, say, the arrows in Mail in 10.3.9...).
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
I like the look of what Punto_Mac's created so far and if it can be made GPL then it's a very promising start to a complete Aqua set. Maybe I can help out in future, it's really up to Punto_Mac since this is his gig.
Quote:
A brave declaration. The results are potentially terrific. If I can lend a hand with low-level tasks to let you two get on with the designing, let me know.
Any help is welcome (there are thousands of icons to redesign!).
Quote:
Another tip: If you're using Photoshop to create your icons, its PNGs can be quite bloated, so run a copy of them through something like PNGCrusher to drastically reduce the file size before adding to images.zip.
There's a "Save for Web" option in Photoshop to optimize the file size.
Joined: Jun 11, 2006 Posts: 481 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:31 pm Post subject:
Hi Punto_Mac!
Here's some icons I've already made at Ed's suggestion:
They replace the remaining nasty looking icons in the preferences of NeoOffice Aqua. All the other preferences images in the Aqua Beta release have already been replaced by Ed with images ripped from my set of Aqua Finder icons. I don't know if you've seen them because the discussion was happening in the splashscreen redesign thread. From now on I'll post any new icon work in this thread.
I'll take a look at your latest set and when I get a chance I'll start work. I'll check in here again before I start to make sure we're not duplicating effort.
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject:
Dude, those icons look awesome! I don't know what we're doing for final, but I'd love to try and do the work to integrate whatever we can come up with. Thanks for all the amazing work you've done on splashscreens, icons, and such phenomenal art
Joined: Jun 11, 2006 Posts: 481 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject:
Hey Smokey,
When I get the update to my Aqua Elements package uploaded I think you should make a change to your custom "New" menu icons. There will be a master document Finder icon so I'd suggest using the 16px variant for "Master Document" and using the 16px generic icon for "Templates and Documents" instead. What do you think?
Joined: Jun 11, 2006 Posts: 481 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject:
OPENSTEP wrote:
I don't know what we're doing for final, but I'd love to try and do the work to integrate whatever we can come up with.
I just did a little tour of the menus and the only other area that I saw was the "Templates and Documents" window. Sweet Jesus that is a horrible window! I've seen plenty of bad UI design in NeoOffice but that looks like it was designed by the three blind mice.
Smokey has already replaced the "New Document" icon which I think is fine, and the "Templates" icon which I think looks confusingly like the new master document Finder icon. I'd like to try designing a replacement for the "Templates", "My Documents" and "Samples" icons.
Other than that I think every other icon in NeoOffice falls under the remit of the Akua icon set. This situation could get really fubar if me, Smokey and Punto_Mac are all replacing various bits of the UI independently and then posting the results for Ed to juggle. The "New" menu, the preferences window and the "Templates and Documents" window are all what I'd call global elements of the application whereas all the other icons are general interface iconography.
Not ignoring this...I just haven't had the time to sit down and straighten this all out in my mind while looking at Neo As Daniel said, there's also that awful template-management interface where the various icons are used, so we need to be consistent throughout....
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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never noticed it ...
As Daniel said, there's also that awful template-management interface where the various icons are used, so we need to be consistent throughout....