Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:34 am Post subject: Platform Bound Installer unsuitable for multi-binary maint..
The installer for NeoOffice has an InstallationCheck which demands for e.g. the PPC pkg to be launched on a PPC. This doesn't make much sense for various reasons. Wiith network homes and in a corporate environment it is unlikely that one can replace all machines at once, so as a result one ends up with a userbase that consists of both, PPC and Intel machines. In turn we use a network Application directory, and in it there is a PPC and an Intel version of NeoOffice. To update those I now need to walk to an intel machine for the one and to a PPC machine to update the other. Another disadvantage is the fact that the installer relies on the name to be literally NeoOffice.app. In our setup we have a NeoOffice Intel.app and NeoOffice PPC.app.
There are a couple more reasons that indicate for the MacoSX own installation engine to be unsuitable for the current Neo situation where one has to maintain two binaries. I would much prefer some sort of patching application, onto which I simply drag the NeoOffice.app bundle that I need to get patched, the patching app takes over the path I dropped and does its thing. I tried to log a bug, but bugzilla is down.
I wonder how much (in USD) you/your company would be willing to donate to the NeoOffice project developers for them to divert their time onto creating a universal binary patch solution to solve (if possible?) the situation you describe? Obviously, their Return On Investment (ROI) would be measurable in terms of the additional time employees like yourself would save on walking to each machine, as you describe. So a scale of reasonable donation for this work should be calculable?
I imagine the development work would not be trivial and, while the developers would be working on providing your solution, they would not be progressing with real bug-fixing which has a wider implication for the rest of the installed user base of NeoOffice.
I shouldn't bother filing a bug (as there isn't one, in this case) but your post in this development forum is probably the right place to be raising the question. _________________ Ray Saunders
World Scout Bureau
Joined: Apr 25, 2006 Posts: 2315 Location: Montpellier, France
Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:44 am Post subject:
Doing what you suggest is probably impossible. I don't know of any drag-and-drop patching system. As far as I know, Mac apps for which you can simply drag the new version over the old one require that you download a full version to update the existing one, and the current patching system is used because downloading a full ~120 MB release whenever an update is needed is not acceptable, both for the users and the developers. Besides, I'm not sure the language packs would survive a drag-and-drop "update", and with over 50 language packs, a multilingual release of NeoOffice would be way too heavy.
The platform check is there to prevent users from installing the wrong version of NeoOffice on their Mac. Having installers that would run on both platforms, and only update the version for the platform they support *might* be possible, but would require Patrick to support two installers for each platform (one with the platform check, and one without), or remove the platform check from all installers. Considering that few people find walking from one machine to another very difficult (no pun intended), it doesn't make much sense for him to do that.
I wonder how much (in USD) you/your company would be willing to donate to the NeoOffice project developers for them to divert their time onto creating a universal binary patch solution to solve (if possible?) the situation you describe? Obviously, their Return On Investment (ROI) would be measurable in terms of the additional time employees like yourself would save on walking to each machine, as you describe. So a scale of reasonable donation for this work should be calculable?
Ray has a very good point. In the past, we have funded major new features like Intel support, Aqua controls, and the upcoming OpenXML and VBA support by large donations from a single donor who has come to us and felt strongly enough that such a feature was needed and so they were willing to foot the bill.
Your request for a Universal binary falls in the same category: it is expensive to implement and maintain (and I can only imagine the extra cost after doubling the size of the installer). The question really comes down to are you willing to donate US$25K plus maybe US$10K per year for such a feature? Neither Ed nor I are which is the reason that it doesn't exist today. Even if you have the money to fund this, is it really worth it for you? If it is, then we should talk further.
As for the patching drag-and-drop, that just isn't feasible. Note that none of Apple's updates are drag-and-drop. While we understand that many people really like drag-and-drop installations, the fact is that drag-and-drop rarely works for large, complex applications like NeoOffice or Mac OS X's bundled applications. Presumably, this is the reason that Apple invested a bunch of money into developing the Mac OS X installer tool.
Although making a Universal installer is not going to happen anytime soon, I did realize that there might be a bug in my patch and language pack installers that could cause patching of PowerPC files by an Intel installer or vice versa.
So, starting with NeoOffice 2.1, I will add a siimple check to my installer code to determine the type of files in an installation before patching an installation so that this bug won't happen.
Ray has a very good point. In the past, we have funded major new features like Intel support, Aqua controls, and the upcoming OpenXML and VBA support by large donations from a single donor who has come to us and felt strongly enough that such a feature was needed and so they were willing to foot the bill.
Joined: Apr 25, 2006 Posts: 2315 Location: Montpellier, France
Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:00 am Post subject:
FWIW, I don't think the OP has ever asked for a Universal NeoOffice.
After re-reading his post, it seems that I also misunderstood his original request. I first thought that he demanded a drag-and-drop installation like that of most smaller Mac apps. But it looks like he's asking for a patching application (no less), on which you would drag the .app bundle, that would determine the .app's location, then update it (?).
lxndr wrote:
I would much prefer some sort of patching application, onto which I simply drag the NeoOffice.app bundle that I need to get patched, the patching app takes over the path I dropped and does its thing.
But still a single universal patching application which would be capable of identifying and updating correctly both PPC and MacIntel versions. _________________ Ray Saunders
World Scout Bureau
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