For the press releases, add a template that screams 'old version' and points to the latest incarnation of NeoOffice..
You could try to hack google's servers instead, but that seems to piss them off to the point of leaving the country..
In general I have no solution about what to do with 'archived' information. Let's face it: the wiki, and the forum even more so, are double as a historical record of the NeoOffice subculture. And that is also nice somehow (or am I getting uselessly sentimental now that I am a week from turning 34?).
Best wishes,
Oscar _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Joined: Jun 11, 2006 Posts: 481 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject:
Just to note, I won't be doing anything to the press kit for the next few days, but I haven't lost enthusiasm. On Saturday morning I will sit down with a cup of coffee and read it afresh.
One of things that I sense Google search and MediaWiki's search is doing is that it puts older content higher in the search results. I am not sure if this is what happening, but its the only theory that I currently have for why I still people post about "NeoOffice/J" and quote out-of-date content from our site.
I think that there are probably more links to the older content, by virtue of it having been around longer Among other things, Google looks for the number of pages that link to a given page (thus spammers trying to leave links everywhere) and the rank or value of the pages doing the linking-to.
For your release tasks page, I think adding more other pages that link to the current page would help, although it may not make a lot of sense
I just ran a sample Google search for "NeoOffice Release Notes"/"release notes NeoOffice"/"NeoOffice patch" and "NeoOffice release tasks" (with no quotes), and the first hit for each of the release notes/patch searches was the 3.0.1 notes, using the "stable" http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/NeoOffice_Release_Notes URL. I think this means that the strategy of linking all of the other pages to the "stable" URL and just making that page redirect to the current version, whatever the current version is at a given time, works well.
For "NeoOffice release tasks" (I'd have to go look in the wiki to find what Patrick's page is actually called, but I think it's something like that, so my search terms should be useful), the first hit is a page about NeoOffice 2.1, and I don't really see anything relevant after that I wonder if adopting the same strategy--a "stable" NeoOffice Release Tasks page that redirects to a page (with version number) for a given current release would help, along with some other pages linking to that "stable" URL?
The other big thing I noticed is that the old sixthcrusade NeoWiki still places very highly in Google searches. This has been a problem, and I've raised it with Jake a couple of times in the past year. The sixthcrusade copy of the wiki needs to go away (ideally with redirects for each page to its neooffice.org NeoWiki URL--should be a reasonably simple .htaccess rule, I think--but frankly I'd be happy at this point if it just fell off the internet entirely).
Are there other specific examples of problem pages/searches you can remember, Patrick? If so, I'll run some searches and put some thought into what other changes we might make to improve where they show up in the results.
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
For "NeoOffice release tasks" (I'd have to go look in the wiki to find what Patrick's page is actually called, but I think it's something like that, so my search terms should be useful), the first hit is a page about NeoOffice 2.1, and I don't really see anything relevant after that I wonder if adopting the same strategy--a "stable" NeoOffice Release Tasks page that redirects to a page (with version number) for a given current release would help, along with some other pages linking to that "stable" URL?
I think this is a good idea. I really like the last point of making the "stable" or "generic" article point to the current release article. But I have one question: I understand that when I first move the existing "Release Tasks" page to a "NeoOffice/J 1.1 Release Tasks" page, "Release Tasks" will redirect to the new name. However, I don't know how to change the "Release Tasks" redirect to the current "NeoOffice 3.0.2 Release Tasks" page. I assume their is a trick to edit redirects, but I could not find it.
sardisson wrote:
The other big thing I noticed is that the old sixthcrusade NeoWiki still places very highly in Google searches. This has been a problem, and I've raised it with Jake a couple of times in the past year. The sixthcrusade copy of the wiki needs to go away (ideally with redirects for each page to its neooffice.org NeoWiki URL--should be a reasonably simple .htaccess rule, I think--but frankly I'd be happy at this point if it just fell off the internet entirely).
I agree. Jake's server is running Apache so if he puts an .htaccess file in the root directory of his Wiki that contains only the following line, all requests should redirect to the matching page on our server:
Code:
RedirectMatch (.*) http://neowiki.neooffice.org$1
I tested this on our NeoWiki test server so it should work unless his webhosting provider has disabled .htaccess files.0
sardisson wrote:
Are there other specific examples of problem pages/searches you can remember, Patrick? If so, I'll run some searches and put some thought into what other changes we might make to improve where they show up in the results.
Not that I can think of. I will try using your suggestion for the Release Tasks pages as those are really only read by Ed, Fran, and I so if I mess their redirects and/or links up, it won't cause any pain for users.
I think this is a good idea. I really like the last point of making the "stable" or "generic" article point to the current release article. But I have one question: I understand that when I first move the existing "Release Tasks" page to a "NeoOffice/J 1.1 Release Tasks" page, "Release Tasks" will redirect to the new name. However, I don't know how to change the "Release Tasks" redirect to the current "NeoOffice 3.0.2 Release Tasks" page. I assume their is a trick to edit redirects, but I could not find it.
Right.
In your example, you moved "Release Tasks" (for sake of example, with a url of neowiki/Release_Tasks) to "NeoOffice/J 1.1 Release Tasks". If you now visit the original URL (neowiki/Release_Tasks) again, you'll end up on the Neo/J 1.1 page *but* there will be a small link near the top of the page that says "Redirected from Release Tasks". If you click that link, you end up back at neowiki/Release_Tasks without the redirect occurring. You can then edit the page to make the redirect code point to whatever page you want to, e.g. to NeoOffice 3.0.2 Release Tasks.
It's confusing to explain, but it's pretty easy once you do it (and I find just retracing the steps easier than remembering what parameters to use on the URL from the beginning). If it's still not clear, though, ask and I'll try again another way/in more detail.
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
It's confusing to explain, but it's pretty easy once you do it (and I find just retracing the steps easier than remembering what parameters to use on the URL from the beginning). If it's still not clear, though, ask and I'll try again another way/in more detail.
It actually is quite obvious once you explain it. I never clicked on the redirect notice itself as I assumed it would just redirect back to the current page.
Joined: Jun 11, 2006 Posts: 481 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:42 am Post subject:
I made some small edits to the page today. The only significant change was that in the Key Features chapter, I added a 3-line description of NeoOffice's raison d'etre.
I felt that the chapter had been edited into non-existence. Although I agree that we should use hyper links as much as possible instead of duplicating content, I really think there should be at least enough text in the body of the press kit to provide a mission statement.
Otherwise, I think the press kit does everything it needs to do.
I felt that the chapter had been edited into non-existence. Although I agree that we should use hyper links as much as possible instead of duplicating content, I really think there should be at least enough text in the body of the press kit to provide a mission statement.
While I have no problem with copying of the standard text from our main website in the article, I am not comfortable with your text at end of your first paragraph as it is factually incorrect. Our main website does not say anything about "a commitment to make NeoOffice's appearance and behaviour as Mac-like as possible". Essentially, you have said that HIG compliance is a primary goal for us and that has never been the case.
What we do commit to do is on the following three things that are on the main website's front page:
* Extremely stable Mac OS X code that has been in daily use by hundreds of thousands of NeoOffice users since 2003
* Significant speed improvements to the OpenOffice.org code
* Special services for our donors
In other words, we commit to is make NeoOffice as stable as possible and provide support for our large donors. Implementing Mac-like features is not a primary goal but is only a byproduct of providing special services to our donors.
I have replaced your editorial content with the above since your text is quite different from what has been on the main website.
Joined: Jun 11, 2006 Posts: 481 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:19 pm Post subject:
pluby wrote:
While I have no problem with copying of the standard text from our main website in the article, I am not comfortable with your text at end of your first paragraph as it is factually incorrect.
Oops. I was trying to find a way to summarise a plethora of stuff, from trackpad gestures to Aqua buttons, that make NeoOffice more Mac-like. However I understand the important distinction you are making between the commitment and the results.
I should note that I paraphrased that sentence from the Wiki's Aqua article , where there is an even more emphatic statement (paragraph 3.) I don't seem to have edit privileges on that article, otherwise I would hide the offending paragraph.
I should note that I paraphrased that sentence from the Wiki's Aqua article , where there is an even more emphatic statement (paragraph 3.) I don't seem to have edit privileges on that article, otherwise I would hide the offending paragraph.
Good catch. That paragraph really should be deleted as it really sounds like the article authors hopes for NeoOffice, not its actual scope. I think Smokey protected the article so maybe Smokey can edit it?
In general, I think we really should try to remove any hype or future promises from articles when we find them. The rule of thumb that I used is to try and limit myself to only stating factual data in any web pages or NeoWiki articles that I edit. I also extend that to release and new feature announcements i.e. I only post a release date or new feature when I am basically done with the bulk of the development work.
I think there are still a lot of hype, predictions for the future, and other non-factual entries in many of the NeoWiki pages created during the NeoOffice 1.x through 2.0 period. At that time, Ed and I and many volunteers were actively marketing NeoOffice in the hopes that it would lead to a self-sustaining business model for the project.
Fortunately, I think most pages created in mid-2007 or later shouldn't have many non-factual entries as we switched our marketing efforts at that time to providing quality online user support and so most of the newer articles are written in a documentation style.
I should note that I paraphrased that sentence from the Wiki's Aqua article , where there is an even more emphatic statement (paragraph 3.) I don't seem to have edit privileges on that article, otherwise I would hide the offending paragraph.
Ugh. I already toned down that paragraph quite a bit the other day, but looking at it again, I agree it doesn't do what I intended the edits to do. I think (at least in the context of the NeoOffice and Aqua page--not necessarily for the Press Kit) that it is important to mention that the program does continue to be more Mac-like over time, as resources (donor contributions/requests) and feasibility allow, not making promises that these will be the focus.
I've gutted that paragraph and rewritten it, and I hope the current one sounds much more like it fits in with the model of "if enough donors request it to make it possible, and if it's technically feasible".
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
I've gutted that paragraph and rewritten it, and I hope the current one sounds much more like it fits in with the model of "if enough donors request it to make it possible, and if it's technically feasible".
That sounds a lot better. It is also timely since we just added the NeoOffice Feature Requests forum.
I apparently cross-posted with you originally and then went to dinner, so I'm glad the changes sound good
pluby wrote:
I think there are still a lot of hype, predictions for the future, and other non-factual entries in many of the NeoWiki pages created during the NeoOffice 1.x through 2.0 period. At that time, Ed and I and many volunteers were actively marketing NeoOffice in the hopes that it would lead to a self-sustaining business model for the project.
Yes, those were a different breed of days.
The other old page that needed marketing-speak cleanup was the intro to NeoOffice on https://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/NeoOffice I've done a first pass over it and I think it's a lot better, but let me know if there are areas that could use some additional tweaking. (I've also applied the FIXME tag to all of the translations of that page ).
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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Among other things, Google looks for the number of pages that link to a given page (thus spammers trying to leave links everywhere) and the rank or value of the pages doing the linking-to.
