Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Tools for the job
berchca wrote:
So with a little poking around, I found a script on KDE-Works.org that will create image-strips for icons (which appears to be the way that toolbar icons are setup.) This will at least be a development tool. I'm not sure how this is going to interface with CVS, that will come later.
I'm converting it to OS X, so far so good. It's probably going to require some extra packages for anyone who wants to use it, I can easily walk anyone through it.
I think the conversion script has already been adapted. See the website I gave you earlier. I believe the collection I made is the same package as the one from KDE-Works with the script with someone's fixes (Yoxi or Max, if I recall correctly).
-Ovvldc (Who's darling iBook is under repair and who is now reduced to using a Win2K box. Woe unto me...)
Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Tools for the job
ovvldc (away) wrote:
I think the conversion script has already been adapted. See the website I gave you earlier.
Hrm, can't get that one to work; seems to be based on an older version of ImageMagick. Anyway, wouldn't be proper to do this without re-inventing the wheel, would it?
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:27 am Post subject: Re: Tools for the job
ovvldc (away) wrote:
I believe the collection I made is the same package as the one from KDE-Works with the script with someone's fixes (Yoxi or Max, if I recall correctly).
Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Tools for the job
berchca wrote:
Hrm, can't get that one to work; seems to be based on an older version of ImageMagick. Anyway, wouldn't be proper to do this without re-inventing the wheel, would it?
As a good friend of my late father once said: "Why spend an afternoon in the library, if you can do it in 6 months in the laboratory" (he's a chemist).
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: Groovy.
I like the new design, yes I do.
Meanwhile, back in scriptland: I've gotten about half-way down my list of mods to the Icon-replacing script, it should make an appearance mid-week. But...
This script seems to already have about 170 icons defined, a fraction of the actual Neo/J icons. I've spent some time trying to get this list expanded and decided, in the tradition of Douglas Adams, that what is actually needed is a tool to help sort the icons. That way the list of icons can keep pace with the development of the new icons instead of being a pre-requisite.
So that's what I'm thinking. Let me know if you're thinking differently. Otherwise, I'll start on the tool once the script is all a'done.
I'm confused. I looked at the pictures and the one on the left looks like a different application than Neo/J. It has tabs on the top, audio panel, Aqua controls, etc. I hope that this is some other application because implementing such application layout in Neo/J is many years of work. Dropping replacement icons into Neo/J is one thing, but changing location is a massive amount of work.
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: OpenOffice Prototype Pic
[quote="pluby"]
RedOrchard wrote:
I'm confused. I looked at the pictures and the one on the left looks like a different application than Neo/J. It has tabs on the top, audio panel, Aqua controls, etc. I hope that this is some other application because implementing such application layout in Neo/J is many years of work. Dropping replacement icons into Neo/J is one thing, but changing location is a massive amount of work.
Patrick
I think you mean the one on the right looks like a different application-- and yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Is this supposed to be a total redesign of Neo/J? I thougth the goal was to come up with a new set of icons to replace the existing ones...
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:05 pm Post subject:
FWIW, I think both are great things to think about. The responses are right now more technical then anything else:
for the "immediate future" (read, 1.1 final, 2.0 release, at a minimum) all that we'll be able to include are change to icons at a minimum. The 2.0/1.5 plans (e.g., not 1.1. final) include making the toolbar backgrounds and widgets render as Aqua widgets.
A full on "relayout", that is, introduction of new widget types, visual organization that can't be accomplished through editing of config files, support of Services/AppleScript/Automator/etc., unfortunately won't be able to be accomplished in the first or second full release of NeoJ. The reasons are both technical as well as sheer manpower.
All that said...I truly begin to understand the type of visualization represented above and think it's great to have a long term vision in mind Even w/o the pane re-orienting, the icons kick a$*. I have no ability to make anything remotely as good, either mockup or iconwise
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Dealing with the repository.
berchca wrote:
I'm guessing a fair amount of icons are not in the NO/J build but are taken from the OOo build. Is this true? (I found 16 icons in the NO/J checkout, but it looked like there were more like 2,000 in the Gnome OOo icon package I found elsewhere.) And if so, it it an easy task for someone to shift them to the NO/J repository?
I spent some more time looking into this issue this evening.
Moreover, I think the /src directory contains all the original OOo icons copied out of source, so one doesn't have to check-out the entire OOo source to find the names/locations of the icons that we will want to replace.
That the KDE folks (who use the same N*F stuff as we do) use the Ximian patches plus their scripts to compile the icons into the binaries at build time (rather than do the script thing where you put the .bmp into your ~/Library/NeoOfficeJ-1.1/whatever and have all the problems of disappearing icons and inability to customize toolbars)
But it looks like, fundamentally, this customization has to be done in the OOo-building step, rather than the Neo-building step (if my basic understanding building Neo is correct).
So we'd have two options, I think. Neither is as simple as adding the Finder icons....
Manually cp'ing the replacement icons to the proper place in the OOo tree once it is downloaded (the initial part of the Neo build downloads the OOo source), for a straight-and-simple replacement of icons, sticking to the current format (8?-bit bmps with 1-bit transparency)
Modifying the Neo build system to include the Ximian patches and something like the KDE build-script and ./configure stuff, which (IIUC) segregates the icons into a separate folder (rather than having to manually replace the existing OOo icons in the OOo source once downloaded) and gives us the other benefits of the Ximian patches (32?-bit plus alpha transparency).
Presumably Patrick already has to do some modifications to the OOo build to get the splashscreen and about box graphic into Neo/J, so that might provide a model for choosing the method for the icons.
Or, I could have this all wrong. I am but a junior trained monkey when it comes to building UNIX apps. Fridrich gives me instructions on how to compile libwpd and I copy/paste them into my terminal window; when something goes wrong, he gets an annoying email from me ....
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
All that said...I truly begin to understand the type of visualization represented above and think it's great to have a long term vision in mind Even w/o the pane re-orienting, the icons kick a$*. I have no ability to make anything remotely as good, either mockup or iconwise
I have been a bit confused about what to make of this myself. But I started considering it. As I understand it, tabs would be just like virtual windows, but thrown into the same window. You could have a rectangle inserted into the window below the toolbars that trigger to have a certain virtual window activated and draw its contents.
I suspect this will be very nasty to implement. But it might actually be worth pushing for at OOo.
Best wishes,
Oscar
P.S. On the icon integration issue: the difference with the ximian set might be that Neo/J uses far less icons since there are none in the menus. I haven't counted them, but if I recall correctly there should be somewhere under 300 icons that are actually used.. There might actually be something to gain in stripping out a lot of the unused icons.
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Even w/o the pane re-orienting, the icons kick a$*. I have no ability to make anything remotely as good, either mockup or iconwise 
