Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: German in the NeoOffice Support Forum? Who would be there?
Hi everybody,
as we discussed in the usergroup-thread http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=766, the idea is there to give certain parts of the support in other languages than english. Until now we spoke about french and german. But it seems to make things easier (and easier to find it again later) to discuss this for every language seperately:
It seems to me, that we should only open the NeoSupportForum for a language, if more than one person is willing and able to give some support in that language - we should not promise more than we can actually do.
I would do my best in german, but my time and my knowledge are very limited. So: Who would be able and willing to do some german in the support forum? (Who is german-speaking in here and has some time and abilities with Neo?)
Regards
T.
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: Re: German in the NeoOffice Support Forum? Who would be ther
Orgleser wrote:
Hi everybody,
as we discussed in the usergroup-thread http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=766, the idea is there to give certain parts of the support in other languages than english. Until now we spoke about french and german. But it seems to make things easier (and easier to find it again later) to discuss this for every language seperately:
It seems to me, that we should only open the NeoSupportForum for a language, if more than one person is willing and able to give some support in that language - we should not promise more than we can actually do.
I would do my best in german, but my time and my knowledge are very limited. So: Who would be able and willing to do some german in the support forum? (Who is german-speaking in here and has some time and abilities with Neo?)
Regards
T.
This sounds good, but I would actually like to see something on the lines of:
NeoOffice Support im Deutsch as a separate forum. This way those who converse in German can work there and if needed a subject could be brought over to the English language forum. It gets confusing when you intertwine languages. However, if the decision is to provide support in multiple languages within the one Support forum, I'm not going to complain loudly....(I might complain, but this is the proper place to do so.)
Joined: Feb 03, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Scotland
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:26 am Post subject:
James, I personally do not expect a great amount of postings in German (I may be wrong. My experience is that Germans usually have a sufficient command of the English language to post here). I feel that communication should be conducted as much as possible in English so that a greater number of people can benefit from the discussion and contribute to it. If we set up a German forum this may lead to parallel discussions with the possibility of duplication of necessary time and effort. However, I belief we should help where necessary and certainly sometimes it may be necessary to slip into the other language for clarification purposes. That is how I understand this thread. If my assumption turns out to be wrong, a separate user forum in German could always be established a few months down the line. But I emphasise again, I am happy to help out as much as I can in either language and under whatever setup is being decided.
PS: I thought it appropriate today to respond to one posting in German. But for that I had to put one of my computers into "German mode" so that I could relate to the posting with the appropriate German terms. Not always easy particularly when, as in this case, terms are used that are not "Neofied"". I therefore think that it is very important that as many non-English-speaking users as possible participate here to help out.
James, I personally do not expect a great amount of postings in German (I may be wrong. My experience is that Germans usually have a sufficient command of the English language to post here). I feel that communication should be conducted as much as possible in English so that a greater number of people can benefit from the discussion and contribute to it.
I agree. However, I also know that most people feel most comfortable conversing in their native language (a good example of this is the Indian call centers where the native language is either Hindi or Urdu.) Like I said, I will not stop, nor have I stopped postings in languages other than English in the current fora. However, I don't want to have a non-English speaker wading through a bunch of English messages just to find one in their native tongue. But, and this is a big but, if the powers that be state that all Support messages will go in the Support forum, regardless of language, I will not be an Aglophile and state this should not be so. That goes against the nature of this system and those who use it. I may ask for a translation (I've got some weird results from Bablefish) of a message if I feel that I can assist.
So, I say let's go forth and help our users, no matter what language they speak or wish to converse in.
Joined: Feb 03, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Scotland
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject:
As I said I may be wrong. If there are many enquiries etc in French, German or other languages, the situation may need to be revisited. Also if the main support people in other languages would feel this arrangement didn't suit them it might be better to "go separate".
Do we know how many users do come from which countries?
Quote:
So, I say let's go forth and help our users, no matter what language they speak or wish to converse in.
Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject:
There already was a discussion on how to do a third language support in the usergroup-thread linked above (see my first post). As far as I understood the majorities opinion there was, we should allow german and french posts in the NeoOfficeSupport Forum for the moment. That was the reason, why I didnot bring up this question here again.
Also, when we get clear that we have enough german supporters for thinking about it a little deeper, we should ask ourselfes how to announce this kind of support (again: we should not promise more than we can provide. For first suggestions for the "how to announce" see the above-linked usergroup thread).
But until now it is only doctype and if I correctly understood glenner and me - thats three of us- who said to support in german, too. Is this enough for the beginning? What do you think, glenner and doctype?
Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject:
Glenner wrote:
Do we know how many users do come from which countries?
Where should we know that from? Is there a way to find it out?
I think if one day Neo would have lets say 2000 german or french or italian users who all want to ask support questions in their own language - they (or we) are free to found a forum of their (our) own. But that is not the situation now. There are some 3000+ registred users by now (the number has risen significally in the last two months!). And going to another language does definately mean to loose contact to the developpers. Such, the mothertongue support is only a "Notlösung" if english is not possible in certain cases (thats my opinion - for the moment). And the english speakers do not loose anything by it, because all problems, we "germans" can not solve - and that will be the difficult ones, because at last my knowledge is very limited - will be translated or otherwise brought to english more or less automatically, because we need the help of the english speaking people with the knowledge .
Joined: Feb 03, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Scotland
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject:
Orgleser wrote:
Glenner wrote:
Do we know how many users do come from which countries?
Where should we know that from? Is there a way to find it out?
There is the registration process for that purpose - I believe you can also analyse server information. At least my server is providing country information. How accurate that is I do not know.
Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject:
Well i am a little good in analyzing the senteces of human language ... but no I can't analyze anything that has to do with servers and thelike (you may wonder, but I am a kind of semi-knowledgeful-computer-idiot )
If someone figured out any numbers of where the trinity registered users come from ... I would be interested.
Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:28 am Post subject:
Hi all,
my question still remains open whether we should start german support with only two (or three) of us giving some support - or not. I think now, we should cancel that for the moment - IF not some others contradict me. Most of the questions of daily use I could answer can be answered better in the german OOo Fora or the links given at the german OOo sitehttp://de.openoffice.org/probleme.html (see especially the links given there under "Mailingliste" and "Foren und Newsgroups"). A very good german forum is e.g. at http://www.ooo-portal.de/, very helpful german helpresource is www.ooowiki.de - for user questions these may be more helpful than what we could provide here at the moment. Exception are special problems related to Neo - but I am not sure wheter I could help with them. Thus I think it would be better to post them in english here and we should not provide german support at the moment.
As everybody can see, my opinion has changed on this. But if we could WIKI the links I mentioned above, we would have gone a big step forward in the question of german user support, although we possibly might not give it ourselves here at Neo.
Another open question from this thread is: Patrick or Ed, is there a way to find out how many german (or french or ...) Users Neo has? can we perhaps find out the number of downloads of the german help (wich at least would give some hint, although double dls are counted there too).
T.
Joined: Dec 08, 2005 Posts: 291 Location: Berlin, Germany
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:02 am Post subject:
Orgleser wrote:
Hi all,
my question still remains open whether we should start german support with only two (or three) of us giving some support - or not. I think now, we should cancel that for the moment
I agree with that. We may keep it at a kind of low level - not announcing it, but if someone has trouble translating his problem (I sometimes don't know how to translate the German interface into English), we can "jump" in.
Orgleser wrote:
... is there a way to find out how many german (or french or ...) Users Neo has? can we perhaps find out the number of downloads of the german help (wich at least would give some hint, although double dls are counted there too).
T.
I never donwloaded the German help - I don't think that's an indicator.
Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:11 am Post subject:
As for the wiki: The german wiki could have an own point named
>>Deutscher Support<< (own link to that in the wiki)
>>Da NeoOffice eine Portierung von OpenOffice.org für MacOS X ist, können die meisten Fragen des täglichen Gebrauchs von NeoOffice mithilfe der deutschen Support-Seiten von OpenOffice.Org gelöst werden.
Wir weisen hin auf
http://de.openoffice.org/probleme.html
und auf die Hyperlinks, die dort zugänglich sind, z.B. unter "Mailingliste" und "Foren und Newsgroups".
und auf www.ooowiki.de
Beachten Sie bitte, dass NeoOffice 1.2 den Code von OpenOffice 1.1.5 nutzt, Tipps und Hinweise für OpenOffice 2.x sind für NeoOffice 1.2 nicht immer anwendbar.
Rough translation:
>> German Support:
Because NeoOffice is a porting of openoffice.org for MacOS X, most questions of daily use of NeoOffice can be solved by using the german support-sites of openoffice.org. We refer to: http://de.openoffice.org/probleme.html and to the hyperlinks, that are available there to the rigth e.g. under "Mailingliste" and "Foren und Newsgroups",
and to www.ooowiki.de,
Please note, that NeoOffice 1.2. uses the code of OpenOffice 1.1.5, tips and hints for OpenOffice 2.x are not always applicable in NeoOffice 1.2.
Could someone read over this? Suggestions welcome! And when that is done, can we add it to the german WIKI? (as well to the english?)
Regards, T.
EDIT: Changed a little, shortly after posting
Should we add a hint: >>Eine Liste von nützlichen deutschsprachigen WebSeiten finden Sie auch am Ende dieses Artikels//a list of useful german websites are to be found at the bottom of this page<< (adding a growing list of links to the wikipages end?)?
Joined: Feb 03, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Scotland
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject:
Orgleser and I had a wee private exchange and we have come up with a few modifications to his earlier suggestions. This has translated in the following text (to be inserted in German). Just wondered what the view is on this?
Because NeoOffice is a port of OpenOffice.org for Mac OS X, the majority of questions concerning NeoOffice 1.2 may be resolved by consulting the German support sites of OpenOffice.org, e.g. http://de.openoffice.org/probleme.html and its linked resources such as "Mailingliste" and "Foren und Newsgroups", and www.ooowiki.de. Please note that NeoOffice 1.2. is based on the OpenOffice 1.1.5 code. Therefore, any tips and hints that are provided in these fora with regard to OpenOffice 2.x may not necessarily be applicable to NeoOffice 1.2.
For any queries specifically relating to NeoOffice, rather than to OpenOffice, please refer first to NeoWiki (http://neowiki.sixthcrusade.com/index.php/De:Hauptseite) and the more comprehensive English version before posting a question at the trinity fora http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums. Postings in English may be answered more rapidly. However, if you can only post in German we will equally try to help, but it may sometimes take us longer to respond.
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