Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: NeoOffice distorts pasted italics
When copying and pasting book references (from BOOKENDS) I experience this.
I copy a reference and paste it into the NeoOffice document. The italics from the reference get distorted in the text of NeoOffice.
For example:
Reference is
Hand, Michael (1996): "Surveyability and the Preface Paradox". Southwest Philosophy Review 12, S. 171-179.
In my text I get somethink like this: Sou thwes t P hilosophy Review
The letters in the journal title "Southwest Philosophy Review" are with different gaps between them. The first "t" of "Southwest" is almost above the following "h"; there are half-blanks between "P" and "h" etc.
In a new NeoOffice document it works OK.
Doing the same with Textedit is OK.
The distorted italics appear not only in one special document but in many (except new ones).
So for example a short NeoOffice document, consisting only of 2 Works Cited:
Quote:
Pollock, John L. (1983): "Epistemology and Probability". Synthese 55, S. 231-252.
Kaplan, Mark (1996): Decision Theory as Philosophy. Cambridge, New York, Melbourne: Cambridge University Press.
Now I append (via Copy and Paste) the third reference
Quote:
Hand, Michael (1996): "Surveyability and the Preface Paradox". Sou thwes t P hilosophy Review 12, S. 171-179.
The distortion always seems to be the same.
I have to set the journal title to standard formatting and then set it in italics again (that works out well).
What's wrong? _________________ servus, tschau, bye
Herbert
http://www.gavagai.de
I am not able to reproduce the behavior you are seeing.
I am able to copy and paste the Hand, Michael reference you provided from my browser to NeoOffice without any distortion (I do not have Bookends.) I tried this in both a new NeoOffice document and an existing one.
I am not able to reproduce the behavior you are seeing.
I am able to copy and paste the Hand, Michael reference you provided from my browser to NeoOffice without any distortion (I do not have Bookends.) I tried this in both a new NeoOffice document and an existing one.
I appears to me that what is happening is that Bookends is pushing Rich Text Format (RTF) data with extra hidden characters to the system clipboard and both NeoOffice and TextEdit are able to filter out these extra hidden characters in most, but not all, cases.
You can test my theory by copying the data from Bookends into TextEdit and then copying the pasted data from TextEdit into NeoOffice. If the same problem no longer occurs, then Bookends is the source of the problem as TextEdit is known to put only well formatted RTF in the system clipboard.
You can test my theory by copying the data from Bookends into TextEdit and then copying the pasted data from TextEdit into NeoOffice. If the same problem no longer occurs, then Bookends is the source of the problem as TextEdit is known to put only well formatted RTF in the system clipboard.
Patrick
The test justifies your theory. _________________ servus, tschau, bye
Herbert
http://www.gavagai.de
I am curious if Bookends puts any other data formats on the system clipboard that are not misformatted. If copy text in Bookends and then select the Edit :: Paste Special menu in NeoOffice, do any of the other data formats paste data more reliably?
I am curious if Bookends puts any other data formats on the system clipboard that are not misformatted. If copy text in Bookends and then select the Edit :: Paste Special menu in NeoOffice, do any of the other data formats paste data more reliably?
Patrick
Hi Patrick,
I'm not quite sure if I understand you rightly.
It always seems to be correct when pasting into a blank page in NeoOffice.
As far as I tested it, only the italics are wrong when pasting the reference entry into a NeoOffice document with some lines.
For instance:
Quote:
Allwood, Jens (1984): "On Relevance in Spoken Interaction". In: Bäckman, Kjellmer, Hg.: Papers on Language and Literature. Acta Universitatis Gothoburgensis, S. 18-35.
The journal title appears in my NeoOffice document (with two similar entries already there) like that: Papers o n L anguage a n d Li terature.
The gaps aren't regularly (but they always are at the same positions when repeating the copy/paste). And there are "minus-gaps" as in the example above between (t and e) and (e and r) in "Literature".
Does that answer your question? _________________ servus, tschau, bye
Herbert
http://www.gavagai.de
No. I think you might not understand how copying and pasting between applications works so let me clarify.
What I was asking if Bookends puts data formats other than RTF on the system clipboard that are usuable (and less misformatted) than the RTF data that Bookends generates. When applications like Bookends paste data, they put one or more types of data on the system clipboard. For example, Microsoft Word will put data in RTF, HTML, and unformatted text formats on the system clipboard.
By default, NeoOffice will use the RTF data if there is any because RTF data contains formatting information like font name, size, and style. What I was curious is if you see HTML or other data formats when you select Edit :: Paste Special in NeoOffice. If Bookends puts HTML data on the system clipboard, you will see HTML listed in the Paste Special dialog and I was asking if it is there, does selecting HTML or any other data format other than RTF avoid the trouble that Bookends' misformatted RTF data cause?
I don't know what "Paste Special" is or where I find it in the menues.
In Neo Office I have these options: Insert (apple+V) and Insert Contents (uppercase+apple+V).
When choosing "Insert Contents" I get the option to choose between "formatted text (RTF)" and "unformatted text". Only with this very last option I get the text unformatted, i.e. no italics.
With the first two options I get the italics distorted whenever inserting in a non-blank document. _________________ servus, tschau, bye
Herbert
http://www.gavagai.de
Joined: Apr 25, 2006 Posts: 2315 Location: Montpellier, France
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:46 am Post subject:
gavagai wrote:
I don't know what "Paste Special" is or where I find it in the menues.
FWIW:
pluby wrote:
Edit :: Paste Special
(Patrick said it twice already)
If you're using a language pack, Edit is the second menu after the NeoOffice menu (i.e. the menu after the File menu), and Paste Special is right after Paste in that menu.
FWIW, 'Insert Contents' (I'm assuming that's a translation of what you actually see) is clearly the equivalent of 'Paste Special' in the English language pack, since it has the same key combo cmd-shift-v (I realise in some other languages cmd and shift are called different things too - cmd=Apple key, shift=uppercase).
There's no easy way for you to know what menu items are being referred to from the English language pack if you're using a different language pack, but you have already provided the info Patrick wanted - there's no HTML option in your clipboard from Bookends when using Paste Special/'Insert Contents' - just RTF and unformatted.
I don't know what "Paste Special" is or where I find it in the menues.
FWIW:
pluby wrote:
Edit :: Paste Special
(Patrick said it twice already)
Repeating an unknown term (even twice or more) does not make it more intelligble.
Samwise wrote:
If you're using a language pack, Edit is the second menu after the NeoOffice menu (i.e. the menu after the File menu), and Paste Special is right after Paste in that menu.
Thanks. That's exactly what I used and described as "Insert Contents" (uppercase+apple+V). In the German language pack it comes out as "insert" for "paste" and obviously "contents" for "special". _________________ servus, tschau, bye
Herbert
http://www.gavagai.de
There's no easy way for you to know what menu items are being referred to from the English language pack if you're using a different language pack,
Right
yoxi wrote:
but you have already provided the info Patrick wanted - there's no HTML option in your clipboard from Bookends when using Paste Special/'Insert Contents' - just RTF and unformatted.
Exactly. According to the Bookends programmer - who tested it with a lot of other Office tools (not NeoOffice - he told me it's not running under "SnowLeopard") - it should be a problem with NeoOffice.
I agree because obviously the italics are correct when pasted into an empty NeoOffice document.
--- I've just tested it:
1) the italics are also OK when there are a few words (with no italics) in the document.
2) pasting again in the same document: italics are OK
3) closing the document (it now has already a few words plus twice the pasted reference entry), reopening it and pasting again: italics are distorted in the third reference entry.
Quote:
Annis, David B. (1978): "A Contextualist Theory of Epistemic Justification". A merica n Philosophica l Quar terly 15:3, S. 213-219.
My assumption: the previous italics influence the latter italics; maybe through some still influential options within the background information. _________________ servus, tschau, bye
Herbert
http://www.gavagai.de
Joined: Jul 05, 2005 Posts: 685 Location: North West England
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:09 am Post subject:
gavagai wrote:
Exactly. According to the Bookends programmer - who tested it with a lot of other Office tools (not NeoOffice - he told me it's not running under "SnowLeopard") - it should be a problem with NeoOffice.
Did you mean to say "it should not be a problem with NeoOffice"?
NeoOffice 3.0.1 and NeoOffice 2.2.6 available under the Early Access Program do now support Snow Leopard. They will be freely available from 27 October.
Following Patrick's suggestion you pasted data from Bookends into TextEdit and then from TextEdit into NeoOffice. This showed no problems. This means that there is some problem with the RTF data generated by Bookends which TextEdit is able to cope with, and TextEdit then pastes only correctly formatted RTF data into NeoOffice.
Unfortunately, NeoOffice is unable to cope with the RTF errors from Bookends and this is what is generating the problem.
In the meantime, one possible workround (a bit klunky, I know) would be to paste your references first into TextEdit, and then from there into NeoOffice.
In your email you mention that Bookends has not been tested with NeoOffice because NeoOffice is not yet running on Snow Leopard. Are you using Snow Leopard? or a version of Bookends designed for Snow Leopard? If you are using Snow Leopard presumably you are using one of the Early Access (EA) versions of NeoOffice (either 3.0.1 or 2.2.6). Is that correct? _________________ MacBook Pro
13-inch, Mid 2012
Processor 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5
Memory 4 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4000 512 MB
OS X 10.9.3 (13D65)
Exactly. According to the Bookends programmer - who tested it with a lot of other Office tools (not NeoOffice - he told me it's not running under "SnowLeopard") - it should be a problem with NeoOffice.
I agree because obviously the italics are correct when pasted into an empty NeoOffice document.
--- I've just tested it:
1) the italics are also OK when there are a few words (with no italics) in the document.
2) pasting again in the same document: italics are OK
3) closing the document (it now has already a few words plus twice the pasted reference entry), reopening it and pasting again: italics are distorted in the third reference entry.
Quote:
Annis, David B. (1978): "A Contextualist Theory of Epistemic Justification". A merica n Philosophica l Quar terly 15:3, S. 213-219.
My assumption: the previous italics influence the latter italics; maybe through some still influential options within the background information.
So what you and the Bookends programmer are concluding is that there is a bug in NeoOffice's underlying OpenOffice.org "insert RTF into document" code that only appears in certain documents. If that conclusion is valid, then doing the above three steps again, but copying all text from TextEdit, not Bookends should yield the same bug.
Does it yield the same bug for you? It does not for me. When I insert some text, insert a footnote, copy and paste your sample text from TextEdit into the footnote twice, save the document, and reopen it, there are no spaces in the pasted italic words.
This make me conclude that my original conclusion is still the cause: that Bookends' RTF is either misformatted or it has some extra hidden characters.
Am I doing the same steps as you or are you doing different steps? If you are doing different steps, can you list them so that I can try them. Until we can reproduce this bug by copying the text from another free Apple application, there really is nothing to fix as while other applications may filter it the misformatting and extra hidden characters, we do not have the resources to implement reverse engineering that apparently misformatted Bookends RTF. But if this is reproducible from TextEdit or a similar application, then it is a NeoOffice or OpenOffice.org bug that we can investigate.
Joined: Jul 05, 2005 Posts: 685 Location: North West England
Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:29 am Post subject:
I see that Bookends has had one or two Font/Formatting difficulties with Snow Leopard, and we know that there have been issues with Fonts more widely due to changes introduced in Snow Leopard, and I'm wondering whether this problem is related to that. I still agree with Patrick that it is a problem for Bookends as the same text pasted from Bookends does cause a problem, but pasted from TextEdit it does not. _________________ MacBook Pro
13-inch, Mid 2012
Processor 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5
Memory 4 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4000 512 MB
OS X 10.9.3 (13D65)
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