How do I "escape" from a section?

[fiddleaway]

Problem: I have a single page that has a middle section of two columns, but just 1 column across the page above and below the middle,columned section.

(Note: I have a couple of workarounds for this issue ... but they seem clunky ... seems like there ought to be a built-in "right-way" to do it)

So after entering text in the top of the page, I insert a SECTION which I format with two columns.

But then, how do I get back to 1 column mode in the bottom third of the page? Neooffice (and in all fairness, probably OpenOffice too), won't let me put the cursor at a point outside and below the columned section.

I find no equivalent to the "section break" concept one sees in MSWord. Revealing hidden characters shows no section break, and it is impossible to click the cursor in the area below the bottom of the columned section.

I've discovered two workarounds.

(1)Before inserting the columned section, add extra blank lines to the end of the upper text area, then insert the columned section between two of the blank lines. This creates a line that is below (after) the columned section which can then be accessed by simply clicking on it with the cursor. The downside of this method is that you must anticipate the need to enter text below and outside of the section to be inserted.

(2)After inserting the columned section, enable the "direct cursor" (Tools/Options/NeoOffice Writer/Formatting Aids) which will allow you to place a paragraph mark outside and below the columned section (but don't click too close to the left margin or the cursor will be placed inside the columned section even though you click outside of it). After creating a line below and outside of the columned section, be sure to disable the direct cursor.

Method (2) above is a built in method for doing what I want, but it's non-intuitive and has me thinking there must be a more direct way to create an insertion point that comes after the last section contained in a document. Is there a way to do it?

[pluby]

[fiddleaway]

I was using 3.0 Patch 7, but I just installed 3.0.1 Patch 0 and I can still reproduce the problem (and I think I know why you couldn't).

Take these steps.

Enable the viewing of paragraph marks.

Enter a few lines of text in a new document. Delete any blank lines at the end of the text ... ie., The last line should contain text and be terminated by a single paragraph mark.

Place the insertion point at the end of the last line (just before the paragraph mark).

Insert/Section/Columns ... make two columns, accept other defaults and hit INSERT

You should now see that the new columned section has been added and you should be unable to create an insertion point outside and below the new section (unless you use method 2 given in initial post).

You can also create this problem by inserting a section at the end of a document (enable viewing of P marks) and then deleting any P marks that appear after the section (use the backspace key until you literally back up into the section). After doing this, you won't be able to insert below the section.

I admit, getting into this state is a contrivance which occurred accidentally when my wife was editing a document ... it's easy to reproduce ... but it's a little unlikely that one would get themself into the predicament in the first place.

Let me know if you still have trouble reproducing what I'm talking about and I'll send a sample.

I'm also available during the day at ###.###.#### if you feel it will expedite the issue. I've got a workaround ... and I understand the 'idiosyncrasy' much better now so from my point of view, it's become a curious FYI you can add to your 'less important fish to fry' bin.

Thanks for your timely response.

David

Edit by pluby: removed phone number to protect users privacy.

[pluby]

[pluby]

I did research and experimenting with sections and I now know why there is no obvious way to add text after a section added using your steps. The reason is that when insert a section at the end of the last line of text, the new section is like an "end of document" object and, as a result, you cannot place the cursor after the section because the section itself permanently positioned at the end of the document. In other words, the new section hangs off of the end of the document.

As you found, undoing this "end of document" behavior is not easy but I did find that you escape it by placing the cursor at the very end of the last section and then inserting a new section using the Insert :: Sections menu and leaving the settings in the dialog that appears set to the default values.

The new section will also hang off of the end of the document but since the new section's default settings are identical to a non-section portion of a new document, inserting a new section at the end of the document should behave the same as if you were able to truly escape the 2 column section.

Does adding a new section with default values work for you?

Patrick

[fiddleaway]

Actually, inserting section2 at the end of the first section (section 1) is the first thing I tried. But when I did this, I inspected the new section using Format/Sections... and discovered that section 2 was actually shown as nested inside of section 1. Actually, it's possible to have section 1 text before and after section 2 because the latter is actually inside of it.

This seemed strange to me for 2 reasons. (1)It's a little different than MSWord handles sections (Not that that is bad ... just different). (2) I recently inspected a neooffice label file to understand how a page of labels is set up ... it's actually a bunch of frames ... and each is also a section .... but all of these are declared at the same level (not one inside the next) .... knowing it's possible to have multiple sections at the same level made me think that solving the problem by embedding a new section in an old one was probably not a 'best practice' solution.

So I kept playing around and found the other two workarounds I gave you. Each of these allows me to escape the special section and continue working in the outermost (section 0?) container of the document. From a sheer "block structuring" standpoint, this "feels" better to me.

It's actually pretty easy to remember to insert new sections on a blank line of the outermost container ... this automatically leaves a line of the outermost container outside and below the new section(as you discovered in your 1st attempt to recreate the problem) ... and clicking on that line is your escape. If you accidentally create the situation where a section is at the very end, you can always use my workaround #2 to escape it (who knows, maybe that's why they created the 'direct cursor' in the first place ??? )

Personally, I'd call this behavior a bug ... but I'm thinking it may be a historical artifice of how section objects are implemented in Oo and NeoO and might be tricky to fix. Not sure what kind of relationship you have with the Oo guys, but if you have one, you might want to run this past 'em.

David

[narf]

[fiddleaway]

OK. Thanks for the help. I'll take it up with the Oo folks.

[fiddleaway]

Follow up ...

Problem very easily solved. Use Alt Return to escape a section.

This is the simple advice I received upon reporting the problem to the Oo issue tracker and the issue was closed.

Personally, I think inserting a section should always have the same behavior ... whether you insert it on a blank line of the document ... or at the end of a line with text on it. But it is a minor point and there is an easy escape if one wants to insert text after a section at the end of a document.

[pluby]

[fiddleaway]

No need to be !! A quick look at the Oo (or NeoO) help manual reveals lists and lists of shortcuts ... the fact that you don't know them all probably means you have a life!

Sure enough, if you look in either Oo or NeoO help under 'shortcut keys:in text documents' you will find that Option+Enter does indeed place a paragraph before or after a section.

There's probably a lot of other magic lurking in these lists of shortcut keys too (exercise left to reader )

[yoxi]

Hah, I initially tried to read "exercise left" as a keystroke...