Excluding Neo/J is not the intent of the wiki. I always saw the Wiki as a place to organize information that arises on the forums. The wiki is still young, and probably skewed simply because of who has been making entires.
Do you think Neo/J would be better served with a separate wiki? i was hoping to put both on the same to help any cross references between the two (three if you include X11) programs, and i believe cross-wiki is as bad as it sounds. (can i just comment that i am not crazy about the name 'wiki'?)
I think we should just have one wiki site and put information on all of the Neo-Projects (we should have a name for Neo-Projects so as to not exclude anyone...). Suggestions on how to better balance it?
Joined: Jun 07, 2003 Posts: 234 Location: near Cologne, Germany
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject: Wiki-content
Patrick,
you are right. At now, there's only NeoOffice stuff in the Wiki.
Looking at our "family", we have three different "products". First, we have the ready-to-use OOo/X11. The most forum content is troubleshooting, only a little bit is about development.
Then we have NeoOffice/J. It's a out-of-the-box-ready-to-use-product, too, but still under development. There are postings for Support, Testing and Development. NeoOffice/J has a well-designed website and its own Bugzilla.
And we have NeoOffice. NeoOffice is under heavy development and can't be used now. Most of the forum's stuff is about building and testing NeoOffice and, of course, less really troubleshooting.
So we have three different target groups leading supposely to different contents, if there's a Wiki including all "products".
I've just put in the stuff of that I think it's important for testing NeoOffice (and getting more people working on NeoOffice). If we put stuff of all products into the Wiki, it is IMHO senseful to make three Wiki-areas, one for each of the "products", because of the different target-groups.
Do you think Neo/J would be better served with a separate wiki? i was hoping to put both on the same to help any cross references between the two (three if you include X11) programs, and i believe cross-wiki is as bad as it sounds. (can i just comment that i am not crazy about the name 'wiki'?)
Maybe I am just getting stuck on the list format. I don't think having a separate Wiki is the answer, but I do think that we might want to figure out how we can divvy up the content.
Specifically, I think there are 3 main content areas that I see:
1. OpenOffice.org X11 support
2. NeoOffice/J support, testing, and download
3. NeoOffice development
This probably doesn't sound much different from what you have, but I think the content for each is very different and, as such, the people that we are targeting is very different. Here's the differences that I see:
1. OpenOffice.org X11 - Since X11 does not seem to be our focus, this would probably contain links to forums and other support sites as well as pages to publicize our NeoJ and Neo links.
2. NeoOffice/J - My opinion is that NeoJ is very close to production quality and, as such, is the only real alternative to the X11 version for a while. I have always felt that purpose of NeoJ is to provide a native alternative to the X11 version during the long lead time that Neo will take to complete. Without NeoJ, there is the risk that people lose interest because there is no incremental improvement from the X11 version and then, when Neo is finally finished, it is too late because people wrote off OOo long ago. Right now, the NeoJ website at http://www.planamesa.com/neojava/ tries to give people the feeling that NeoJ is a real application that they can use today. That is why we have localized content in several languages. Primarily, I see Wiki helping use to keep the NeoJ content synchronized across all mirrors and allowing translators to more easily update the localized pages.
3. NeoOffice - Neo has made a lot of progress and Dan and Ed are doing great work. But, not surprising, there development process is following about the same pace as NeoJ did. In my experience, it takes 20% of the time to get a working demo and 80% to get rid of all the crashes, performance bottlenecks, and printing problems. While Neo will be able to leverage some of my NeoJ code so that they won't have to trip over the same problems (like the event dispatching and native print dialogs), I think we are farther rather than closer to having something production here. If people share my opinion (and it is just my opinion), then I think the Neo site wuld really be geared towards enticing developers with build and debugging tips, architectural discussions, and coordination issues with the OOo 2.0 development. This type of content would probably not entice users and, frankly, do you really want users downloading half-done code and then flooding your site with complaints?
jakeOSX wrote:
I think we should just have one wiki site and put information on all of the Neo-Projects (we should have a name for Neo-Projects so as to not exclude anyone...). Suggestions on how to better balance it?
I hope that helps clarify my thoughts. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that Neo and NeoJ are competitors. I have always assumed that the need for NeoJ would disappear with OOo 2.0. I just think that Neo and NeoJ, due to their different stages of development, are geared to very different groups of people and Wiki (or any of our sites) should reflect that.
Joined: Jun 07, 2003 Posts: 234 Location: near Cologne, Germany
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject:
Ok, we've recognized that we have different target-groups with the different products leading to different content.
I agree with Patrick, that there's no competition between the "products". Fo example, for me(!) is OOo/X11 on the Mac the past, NeoOffice/J the present an "aquafied" OOo/NeoOffice the future (but there's of course a present and a future for OOo/X11 and NeoOffice/J on other platforms).
As a first attempt, I've made "sections" for each "product", but that's a "suggestion". As Jake pointed out, the Wiki is at its beginning. So I would suggest, get your Wiki-"account" an begin putting in content We'll see to what it leads.
I agree completely. =) i never saw the Wiki as replacing the main Neo/J website (or any Neo-Project website) but as another venture of passing information onto the end user.
but you do bring up a good point. should the wiki be developer or user biased (if biased at all) or should we try to play the line between the two? (i think both, since and an OSS we are appealing to both, but I'd like to hear more experienced opinions)
as for Neo/J content, my first thought (as well as X11) was to build a FAQ from some of the common Forum posts.
The Wiki is there to help, so grab it and mold it to how you want it to enhance the current Neo/J pages. And anything I can do to help, just pass the word. Because Neo/J is so close to completion, I just want things in place for when we can open the gates (if you will) and let everyone come and get it.
Oh, and I am playing with the templates as well. For starters it will just look like my mirror site (re: the cohesiveness amoungst webpages from above) but like the wiki, the layout is maluable, so let me know what you think.
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