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NeoOffice :: View topic - OpenOffice.org removes Neo from Mac downloads page
OpenOffice.org removes Neo from Mac downloads page
 
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: Re: OpenOffice.org dispute

ovvldc wrote:
Basically, I am with James. I'll keep using Neo, and I'll lurk for a bit, but you may consider my presence much diminished in the future. I've pretty much had it with the temper tantrums on both sides and the politics.

Oscar, pretty much everything I said earlier to James I say to (and about) you as well.

From the early days of the wiki to the run-up to 1.1...those were some great times.... (And I appreciated your checking in on me when I checked out from time-to-time.)

I wish you the best in the future, and I hope one day things will improve to the point that you feel like rejoining "us"....

Smokey

_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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Orgleser
sheepfun
sheepfun


Joined: Nov 28, 2005
Posts: 299
Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:09 pm    Post subject:

Now the second person of some importance is lost. Sad thing.
Oscar good bye, sad to see another of the "heros" go.

Time to think about the "flaming debate" because it does cost manpower?

T.
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fabriziovenerandi
Keymaker


Joined: Oct 12, 2004
Posts: 77
Location: italia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:10 pm    Post subject:

I think the problem is that neooffice 2.0 is going to be released and patrick is asking money for it. While openoffice 2.0 cocoa+carbon is still a vaporware, neooffice 2.0 is just around the corner and someone is buying food in california 'wrapping a gui around' the openoffice code.
The real disadvantaged people in this eric/patrick diatribe are the users.

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eadem sed non eodem modo facere
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doctype
Oracle


Joined: Dec 08, 2005
Posts: 291
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject:

fabriziovenerandi wrote:
I think the problem is that neooffice 2.0 is going to be released and patrick is asking money for it.While openoffice 2.0 cocoa+carbon is still a vaporware, neooffice 2.0 is just around the corner and someone is buying food in california 'wrapping a gui around' the openoffice code.

I don't think money as the problem. The problem is: NeoOffice 2.0 is coming, and "Native Mac OpenOffice" not (so soon). NeoOffice 2.0 is based on OpenOffice X11, and, as Eric Hoch described today, NeoOffice developers "get their 15 minutes fame" based on it & OpenOffice Coders can't use the NeoOffice Code, because they are bound to another license. There were other accusations, lies, stealing, disrespect etc. which I felt completely over the top. And complaints about "wrapping a GUI around", which astonishes me quite in the context of Mac OS X, where GUI is so important (and not that easy to achieve as the term "wrapping" implies).
Quote:

The real disadvantaged people in this eric/patrick diatribe are the users.

Yes, but one usually stays rather cool, while the other suffers of a napoleonic temper.
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val1984
Oracle


Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 229
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject:

Update : Eric Bachard has posted a short text about all this mess :
http://eric.bachard.free.fr/news/2006/04/mise-au-point.html
http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:19 am    Post subject:

Spin still doesn't change the way in which things were handled. Actions speak louder than words.

ed
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bompi
Blue Pill


Joined: Apr 26, 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:38 am    Post subject:

Hi everyone (i'm kind of a newbie here Wink )

All this does make sense to me since I got recently an argument with Éric B. I didn't get the real point at that time ...
I moderate some french MacOS forums and I've been accused by Éric B. of being to much in favor of NeoO. instead of OOo. The idea behind that being OOo is the real thing while NeoOffice is a kind of a parasite ...
I didn't see the point when it happened, last week but right now, I get it ...
Despite the mild text he's written about all this mess, it's quite obvious there's a will to get rid of NeoOffice by taking its developers to OOo.

Tssss....
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:14 am    Post subject:

history time.

see, neooffice was started by the original openoffice.org porting team. way back in the 1.0.1 days, there was talk of a native Mac port. This idea was shut down by the powers that be at OpenOffice.org. They said no, that X11 was good enough. Seriously.

So the porting team started the NeoOffice project. The goal was to figure out how to bring OpenOffice.org to the mac. Why not just do it as part of OpenOffice.org you ask? License. The SISSL (or whatever) licence OpenOffice.org was originally released under stated that they could take what you did and put it in commercial products. (They could, you could not) This meant that if the original three man team figured out some way to get OpenOffice.org on the Mac natively, then this could be used imediatly by Sun in StarOffice to make money.

NeoOffice was started as a cocoa port of OpenOffice.org under the GPL for this reason. At least that way Sun and OpenOffice.org, neither of whom supported the native port, would have to give back if they wanted to play.

Around the time of OO.oX11 1.1.2 GM the porting team had dwindled to two, well, more like one and a half. There were no new programmers coming to help with the X11 port, and no support coming from OpenOffice.org. This is when the remainder of the team left, and devoted time to NeoOffice (now fully NeoOffice/J).

When Eric restarted the OO.oX11 program it was a good thing. The programmers who came along helped bring OO.o2.0 to X11. Who knows, maybe if Pavel and Maho and the others had arrived earlier when Ed was still running OO.oX11, then things would be different between the two groups.

Who knows.

What I do know is that 'parasite' is probably not the best word to use. Shelby Cobras are not 'parasites' for Ford Mustangs. Both of these products are legitamite. further dividing the already small OpenOffice.org on Mac group will help no one.

Well, except Microsoft.
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Eric Bachard
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:52 am    Post subject: please verify before to conclude

ericb->JakeOSX

Please, ask Val1984 to translate, because I think he is an objective people. The concerned thread is this one :
<http://forum.macbidouille.com/index.php?s=bace766c80368eefb42610c201683ef7&showtopic=165428>

As you can see, bompi's post was moderated two times.

Regards,
Eric Bachard
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val1984
Oracle


Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 229
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: please verify before to conclude

Eric Bachard wrote:
ericb->JakeOSX

Please, ask Val1984 to translate, because I think he is an objective people. The concerned thread is this one :
<http://forum.macbidouille.com/index.php?s=bace766c80368eefb42610c201683ef7&showtopic=165428>

As you can see, bompi's post was moderated two times.

Regards,
Eric Bachard

Why do you think Bompi is VN@Macbidouille?
He's not a moderator as far as I know...
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Eric Bachard
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: ooops

ericb->Val1984

You're right, I'm completely wrong.

Excuse me
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:29 am    Post subject:

Embarassed i am confused.
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val1984
Oracle


Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 229
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:59 am    Post subject:

FYI, I edited the Derived Works page@OpenOffice.org to show which OSes are supported by each OOo derived product.
I think I will add a license column ASAP.
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MacRat
Sake Horner
Sake Horner


Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 364
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject:

Server not responding.......
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:50 am    Post subject:

The link works for me. Maybe you are behind a firewall that is not working correctly?

Patrick
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