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NeoOffice :: View topic - Scanner Support
Scanner Support
 
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aussie149
The Merovingian


Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 607
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:48 am    Post subject: Scanner Support Reply with quote

Q [probably for Patrick or Ed]: how close are we to getting scanner support within NeoOffice? I notice that when I go Insert Picture>Scan>Select Source, something happens now. I get a screen with promising-looking buttons, but no recognition of my device. I can't run Virtual PC at the moment to see if OpenOffice.org gets any further, although VPC would probably muck up that link anyway.

Peter
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We haven't really had time to look at scanner support and, well, neither of us has a scanner Smile  The OOo code does have some moderate support for TWAIN libraries that I thought I heard were somewhat functional in 1.x, but I haven't heard of anyone using them successfully yet with 2.0 (either X11 or us).

Eventually I suppose we'll try integrating with the Mac OS X scanning librarires, but I have no idea when we might be able to get around to that.

ed
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sardisson
Town Crier
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Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, have you installed SANE? The OOo scanner support requires SANE on UNIX-like OSes. (And you need a SANE-supported scanner, which rules out a large number of popular ones.)

And, unless the OOo UI has been improved by a million times in 2.0, it's so limited it's not worth it; you're really better off using *anything* else to do your scan....

I got this to work in 1.2.x with my brother's scanner (a freebie multifunction Epson that had no Mac drivers, so Gutenprint + SANE to get it working at all with his Mac), but the whole process was far from user-friendly and the results were frustratingly limited. (The only reason I did the Neo bit after getting it working so was to be able to have done the steps to answer this question, which comes up periodically....)

If you still really want to do so, and provided you have a SANE-compatible scanner, you need to:

1) Install SANE backends package: http://www.ellert.se/twain-sane/
2) Install libusb package
3) Configure the backend (either manually, or via a pseudo-GUI in the SANE prefPane): http://www.ellert.se/twain-sane/faq.html
4) Run Neo

(You only need the Twain-SANE interface if you have a scanner without Mac drivers that you want to use via Twain--in Image Capture, GraphicConverter, Photoshop, etc.--not for Neo.)

Smokey

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amayze
The Merovingian


Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 561
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, now I've installed the SANE drivers I now get a window displayed when I choose Select Source..., though until I work out how to disable the Canon drivers I can't select my scanner - and that would mean it wouldn't work with any other apps, unless I also install the TWAIN-SANE interface.

Not sure this is really an option for the long term, but for debugging purposes I'm happy to do it.

Andy
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amayze
The Merovingian


Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 561
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, managed to uninstall the Canon driver and now the SANE driver sees my scanner. So now to NeoOffice to see if/how it works...

What a horrible experience!

So I thought I'd choose Insert->Picture->Scan->Select Source... to select my scanner and then Insert->Picture->Scan->Request... to get a nice window where I set options and make a preview and crop it and finally scan it into Neo.

Oh no! How wrong could I be.

You use Select Source to choose the scanner - mine has the nice name of genesys:libusb:005:006-04a9-221c-ff-ff - catchy isn't it! AND select the resolution, bit depth, scan mode, make the preview and crop it.

Then you close that window and use Request... to actually do the scanning with no further feedback, other than scanner noise until the image appears in NeoOffice!!!

Ed, I don't blame you for not looking at this - its horrible, and sadly as its part of OOo its going to stay that way! But that said, it does work.

There are various cosmetic Aqua issues with the Select Source... dialogue, like two rows of text on a button, so the second row hangs off the bottom. So if you want me to take some screen shots and add it to Bugzilla I will, but I'm starting to come out in a rash just looking at it!!

Andy (who doesn't think CanoScan is so bad after all now!)
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, if you see any UI issues in the dialog with text overruns and the like open up issues for those in BZ for sure! I'm sure that there are other awful dialogs buried in OOo that may have similar problems and we really should handle all cases.

Yeah, that scanner support seems completely awful to use. While I can see how it might be a great thing on linux or solaris where there really aren't many photohandling options, it seems really silly on Macs when compared against the kind of scanner capture you can do straight in Photoshop or Image Capture. Another thing to put on a longterm list of things to replace.

ed
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OPENSTEP wrote:
Yeah, that scanner support seems completely awful to use. While I can see how it might be a great thing on linux or solaris where there really aren't many photohandling options, it seems really silly on Macs when compared against the kind of scanner capture you can do straight in Photoshop or Image Capture. Another thing to put on a longterm list of things to replace.


Why not scrap the whole dialogue and call Image Capture as a plugin or something Smile. I know nothing about programming and APIs, but revamping the scanning support might even be more work..

Best wishes,
Oscar

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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh that's totally what I have in mind, just get rid of it all and replace it with some stock libraries.  That whole twain/sane whatever is really a legacy from designs for platforms like linux that have no built-in scanning APIs.

That'll be on my pile of things to do, but that guy will probably wait until after final.  The fact the button isn't drawing right, though, is really the kind of thing I need to fix.  I wish we didn't have all these awful engineers writing such buggy code...oh wait...I wrote it...Laughing

ed
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sardisson
Town Crier
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Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, dear! It sounds like the UI got worse (more complex) in 2.0 rather than better Surprised

I'm sorry you suffered through with that, Andy Sad (It was a good laugh to read, though, how horribly complex and awful OOo has made such a simple thing.)

I'm seriously considering putting up an article on the wiki "How to scan from within NeoOffice" and having its content be simply "Don't" Wink

BTW, in addition to being useful for people on platforms where scanning is not readily available, it's also a piece of "OOo Office Bloat"--i.e., because MS Office does it, OOo must, too. Haven't people in Hamburg or Redmond ever heard of "using the right tool for the job" ? Evil or Very Mad

Smokey

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aussie149
The Merovingian


Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 607
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject: Me Too Reply with quote

Andy/Smokey/Ed/Oscar
I also downloaded all the stuff from SANE_TWAIN. I hadn't used that stuff since I was mucking around in X11 with an old, old scanner. Very clunky. Anyway, I'm please you got it to work, Andy. I get the screens with the untidy buttons, and my scanner "pixma:04A91706...". but nothing happens when I ask it to scan - other than a pop-up telling me it is going to take 'considerable amount of time"!! Like, never? Sad I agree that we should advise our users not to bother: just use a workaround.

Peter
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think we should invest the time to just remove all of the "from scanner" style entries from our menus?

Really.  If something is present in OOo and is half-a***d, flaky, and non-functional, I'd rather just remove it.  I am totally not concerned with the ability to get a checkmark in a feature comparison list unless we can do it right, especially if it's the kind of thing where the Mac already provides better options for accomplishing that task.

ed
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rays
The Anomaly
(earlier version)


Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 475
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OPENSTEP wrote:
Do you think we should invest the time to just remove all of the "from scanner" style entries from our menus?


Might it be better to leave the menu item as is [edit] in order to keep the UI consistent with OOo on other platforms [/edit] but selecting it brings up a window which explains why this feature is deliberately not implemented in NeoOffice and suggesting alternative strategies, such as...

a clickable URL to bring up this Mac Help item (this sample from 10.3)?

Using Image Capture to transfer images from your camera or scanner

Using Image Capture, you can transfer images from your USB digital camera or scanner to your computer. If your camera records video clips and MP3 sounds, you can transfer these, too.

You can set Image Capture to perform tasks automatically when you transfer items, such as start a full-screen slideshow, place items in specific folders, format images for printing at specific sizes, preview images, or create a simple webpage using your images.

You can share images from your digital camera or scanner over a local network, or over the web. You can control some digital cameras over the web, so you can monitor an area remotely.

When scanning an image, you can preview and crop the image before transferring it to your computer.

To learn more about using Image Capture, open Image Capture and choose Help > Image Capture Help."

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djpimley
The Anomaly
(earlier version)


Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rays wrote:
OPENSTEP wrote:
Do you think we should invest the time to just remove all of the "from scanner" style entries from our menus?

Might it be better to leave the menu item as is in order to keep the UI consistent with OOo on other platforms but selecting it brings up a window which explains why this feature is deliberately not implemented in NeoOffice and suggesting alternative strategies, such as...

Couldn't agree more. It gets my vote. No need to reinvent the wheel - badly - just nudge users towards Image Capture and let uncle Mac take care of them. How about a nice neat little window with a "More Information..." button linked to the help item and a "Launch Image Capture" button?
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aussie149
The Merovingian


Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 607
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rays wrote:
OPENSTEP wrote:
Do you think we should invest the time to just remove all of the "from scanner" style entries from our menus?

Might it be better to leave the menu item as is in order to keep the UI consistent with OOo on other platforms but selecting it brings up a window which explains why this feature is deliberately not implemented in NeoOffice and suggesting alternative strategies, such as...



Actually, I hate to be a party pooper, but this instruction wouldn't work for me. Image Capture doesn't work with the scanner on my OS X, because it seems to want to do something that Canoscan won't let it. Not sure how common that is, but maybe we need to add something like, "If Image Capture conflicts with your current scanner software, just use the software you have"

Peter
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amayze
The Merovingian


Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 561
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've added bug 1630 which describes how there is no feedback if the SANE libraries aren't installed, as this seems to me to be something that should be fixed whatever the future of scanning support in Neo.

I'll add a few more about the functioning of the Select Source... window for Ed's reference, but feel free to ignore them if its all for the bucket anyway.

Andy.
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