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bigmudcake
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 Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: Donation "nag" page for early access members |
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Hi all,
Just wondering if you have thought about releasing a version of NeoOffice to Early Access members without the donation "nag" screen.
It just seems a little too much to donate to become an early access member and then get remindered to donate again. Maybe put a hard wired date in the Early Access version so that in say 9 months time it will remind us to donate again 
Keep up the excellent work with development of this fantastic software for the Mac.
Cheers
edave |
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LemonAid
The Anomaly
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program
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| Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Donation "nag" page for early access members |
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| bigmudcake wrote: | Hi all,
Just wondering if you have thought about releasing a version of NeoOffice to Early Access members without the donation "nag" screen.
It just seems a little too much to donate to become an early access member and then get remindered to donate again. Maybe put a hard wired date in the Early Access version so that in say 9 months time it will remind us to donate again
Keep up the excellent work with development of this fantastic software for the Mac.
Cheers
edave |
Perhaps you missed Patrick's item 7, above:
| pluby wrote: | | 7. Since Neo AB 3 now can use your web proxy settings in System Preferences if you are behind a firewill, Neo 2.1 will no longer open the welcome, donation, and patch download pages in a separate browser. Instead, Neo 2.1 will open then a separate, read-only, document windows within NeoOffice. The "magic" opening of browser windows was a little too similar to the behavior of popup ads so keeping display of these pages will hopefully not be as worrisome for many users. |
Philip ( Sooooo ... Excited!  ) |
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bigmudcake
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: Donation "nag" page for early access members |
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| LemonAid wrote: |
Perhaps you missed Patrick's item 7, above:
| pluby wrote: | | 7. Since Neo AB 3 now can use your web proxy settings in System Preferences if you are behind a firewill, Neo 2.1 will no longer open the welcome, donation, and patch download pages in a separate browser. Instead, Neo 2.1 will open then a separate, read-only, document windows within NeoOffice. The "magic" opening of browser windows was a little too similar to the behavior of popup ads so keeping display of these pages will hopefully not be as worrisome for many users. |
Philip ( Sooooo ... Excited! ) |
I think you may have missed my point; I did read item 7 , its not how the nag screens open (whether its in a web browser, in Neo itself), its more the fact that after you donate via Early Access, you are prompted to donate again.
I don't necessarily have a problem with the nag screens themselves, as people who don't donate should be encouraged to do so. I have a problem being prompted to donate after already donating. I just feel thats a bit much to those who do donate already.
I can't wait for this exciting release
Cheers
bigmudcake |
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OPENSTEP
The One
Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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As has been noted before our default patch check notification system is enabled during pre-release periods to periodically check and notify users of important bug fix patch availability. Historically users do not check for patch updates themselves and before this automatic update notification system was in place we got many more complaints about things that had already been fixed (granted they still occur)...
If there are no patches available we "fall back" and display the donation page. Yes I guess it's the penalty for keeping your software up to date but really, you're in a very very small minority of downloaders.
This can be easily disabled for any link (see above link).
Sorry if I sound heartless, but really I have no sympathy to this or any other complaint about the automated patch system. If you want something more seamless go gripe to Apple to open up Software Update to allow third party software applications to integrate with it so we don't have to come up with our own less elegant solutions.
ed |
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pluby
The Architect
Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: Donation "nag" page for early access members |
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| bigmudcake wrote: | | I don't necessarily have a problem with the nag screens themselves, as people who don't donate should be encouraged to do so. I have a problem being prompted to donate after already donating. I just feel thats a bit much to those who do donate already. |
I get what you are saying. The problem is that NeoOffice has no way of knowing that you donated. This is something that we could write code for. But to do so would require that we maintain our own list of donors with some public interface to the data so that NeoOffice could match your PayPal donation to the list of donors.
Frankly, holding such data really scares me and is the primary reason that we have not implemented such a feature. Both Ed and I feel very strongly in respecting people's privacy.
So what options does that leave? Since adding "donation detection" adds a lot of risk to the privacy of our donors, my thinking is that all we can do is to provide lots of information on how to disable to the donation and patch checking. The most simple way is to tell add the data in this topic to a NeoWiki article and then I can add obvious links to the NeoWiki article in the donation, patch, and donation "thank you" pages.
If there are other places that we can add links about this, I'm willing to add them.
Patrick |
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sardisson
Town Crier
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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I had thought on many occasions about writing an article in the wiki about how to disable these notifications, but I have always been reluctant to do so since NeoOffice survives only as long as donations continue to fund development, and because patch-check is a critical mechanism for ensuring that users have the latest bug/crash/security fixes—and because instructions on disabling these items were easily locatable by searching trinity.
However, since Patrick has asked for such an article, I've relented  and added one (complete with prompting to keep up with patches yourself and to support NeoOffice development).
Also, I've split this discussion into its own topic, since it's not really a change in NeoOffice 2.1
Smokey
_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki |
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LemonAid
The Anomaly
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program
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| Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Looks Good Smokey,
I would make one (small) suggestion. I would add something to the effect " If you disable patch-checking, you should update to the current patch before requesting assistance and/or reporting problems on trinity forums".  Your problem may have already be resolved. Or something like that
I feel your concern with posting this information, but maybe it's best for the next stage in NeoOffice's ... growth?
Philip ( "Lemony Fresh Tips?"   ) |
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sardisson
Town Crier
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588
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| Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| LemonAid wrote: | Looks Good Smokey,
I would make one (small) suggestion. I would add something to the effect " If you disable patch-checking, you should update to the current patch before requesting assistance and/or reporting problems on trinity forums". Your problem may have already be resolved. Or something like that |
Done; thanks.
It's good to remind people of that at every opportunity (we still get a fair number of bugs filed against unpatched or 6-10 patches behind versions of Neo 2 AB 3)—especially when teaching them how to ignore our patch notifications 
Smokey
_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki |
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Max
Agent
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 17
Location: UK
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| Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:00 am Post subject: Making lemonade |
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| Quote: | I get what you are saying. The problem is that NeoOffice has no way of knowing that you donated. This is something that we could write code for. But to do so would require that we maintain our own list of donors with some public interface to the data so that NeoOffice could match your PayPal donation to the list of donors.
Frankly, holding such data really scares me and is the primary reason that we have not implemented such a feature. Both Ed and I feel very strongly in respecting people's privacy.
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Why not make a feature of this on the donation page? At the very top of the page, in the list of links. Explaining why the page appears may turn a bug into a feature!
Max |
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bigmudcake
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| OPENSTEP wrote: | As has been noted before our default patch check notification system is enabled during pre-release periods to periodically check and notify users of important bug fix patch availability. Historically users do not check for patch updates themselves and before this automatic update notification system was in place we got many more complaints about things that had already been fixed (granted they still occur)...
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A point I will make about the quote above is that you should never assume all users are lazy or idiots and force these things onto them.
In every automated update system I have seen there is ALWAYS an easy way to either turn it off or make it manual. There are many computer professionals out there that schedule updates in their own time and not dictated by the software. I do assume NeoOffice is for the professionals and iWorks is for the home user.
| OPENSTEP wrote: |
This can be easily disabled for any link (see above link).
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I do beg to differ, its neither easy, or obvious on how its done.
| OPENSTEP wrote: |
Sorry if I sound heartless, but really I have no sympathy to this or any other complaint about the automated patch system. If you want something more seamless go gripe to Apple to open up Software Update to allow third party software applications to integrate with it so we don't have to come up with our own less elegant solutions.
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It is silly to expect Apple to open up their Software Update system to 3rd parties as it would greatly deminish security and quality control on the update system. Can you just imagine the scenario where a trojan could be injected via 3rd party patches and automatically uploaded to all Apple users.
Also, I see that openoffice have added an automated update system into their latest version, just wondered how trivial it would be to use it for NeoOffice updates.
Anyway, thats my 3 cents worth |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Donation "nag" page for early access members |
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| pluby wrote: | | bigmudcake wrote: | | I don't necessarily have a problem with the nag screens themselves, as people who don't donate should be encouraged to do so. I have a problem being prompted to donate after already donating. I just feel thats a bit much to those who do donate already. |
I get what you are saying. The problem is that NeoOffice has no way of knowing that you donated. This is something that we could write code for. But to do so would require that we maintain our own list of donors with some public interface to the data so that NeoOffice could match your PayPal donation to the list of donors.
Patrick |
Maybe have a "donors" version only available inside the early access program and/or as a download link at the end of the paypal donation steps.
That way you dont need to link any users with the sofware.
Or maybe a special closed forum for donors where they could have higher level of exclusive forum support with a sticky post of the donors downloadable version of NeoOffice. This would encourage more donations.
Cheers
bigmudcake. |
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pfb3d
Red Pill
Joined: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| As an EAP member I do not mind the donation page appearing as it causes me to pause for a moment and remember that I have already made some small contribution to this amazing software. I was not aware that patch checking was done at every launch (too busy just using NeoO) and suggest that it might be useful somehow to flash a message to the effect that "NeoOffice has just checked with the Mother Ship and it is running patch <PatchNo> which is up to date as of <TodaysDate>" if no new patch is available. I must say that I have never seen another software project that is as diligent in triaging bugs and issuing patches as this one so patch checking really matters and is much appreciated. I find it much more practically useful than having to wait for less frequent "point" releases to incorporate multiple bug fixes. |
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Spooky2
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: Sparkle |
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| OPENSTEP wrote: |
Sorry if I sound heartless, but really I have no sympathy to this or any other complaint about the automated patch system. If you want something more seamless go gripe to Apple to open up Software Update to allow third party software applications to integrate with it so we don't have to come up with our own less elegant solutions.
ed |
Have you thought about using the Sparkle updating system ? It seems to work quite well. You might know it from Adium or Cyberduck... |
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