Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject: Bugzilla changes
After implementing the Bugzilla changes described in this forum topic, I realized that the following NeoWiki article probably needs some slight tweaking:
Overall, I think almost all of the information in that page is still relevant and needs no change. The only thing that I thought would need changing was to change the following items:
5. If the problem persists, file a bug, following the guidelines below
In this item, I think we only need to change the "file a bug" link to be "report a bug in the NeoOffice Support forum" and link to the following URL:
I think we need to delete the first paragraph and add replace the first sentence in the second paragraph with the following wording:
"Unfortunately, our very limited funding and developer resources limits the current scope of the NeoOffice project to keeping a native version of OpenOffice.org running on Mac OS X and fixing OpenOffice.org bugs is outside that scope."
Filing a bug report in the NeoOffice.org Bugzilla
I think this entire section can be replaced with something similar to the new wording that we have on the Bugzilla home page:
"If you found a bug, please post your bug in the NeoOffice Support forum. If NeoOffice is crashing or hanging, we recommend that you obtain a crash log or sample by following the steps in this NeoWiki article and then attach the crash log to your post.
We will evaluate any bugs that are posted in the NeoOffice Support forum. If we find that a change in the NeoOffice code is needed, a NeoOffice developer will create a bug for you."
Ehm, make it more abundantly clear that users should attach a txt file with a sample or crash log, rather than paste it into a forum message?
Other than that, it seems fine. I guess there are enough outstanding feature requests and ideas in your head already to last you into the end of the decade, so barring any new ones is a good idea.
Best wishes,
Oscar _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:22 am Post subject: Re: Bugzilla changes
pluby wrote:
Feature and Enhancement Requests
I think we need to delete the first paragraph and add replace the first sentence in the second paragraph with the following wording:
"Unfortunately, our very limited funding and developer resources limits the current scope of the NeoOffice project to keeping a native version of OpenOffice.org running on Mac OS X and fixing OpenOffice.org bugs is outside that scope."
Since we're mentioning this text..."keeping a native version of OOo running on Mac OS X" doesn't seem quite right anymore now that OOo is a non-X11 app. I'm not sure what to replace it with (see also my other post tonight about how my brain is not working), but I do think that phrase is due for a slight refresh
pluby wrote:
Filing a bug report in the NeoOffice.org Bugzilla
I think this entire section can be replaced with something similar to the new wording that we have on the Bugzilla home page:
I'd keep (or add to the new text, or whatever) the parts where we ask for OS version and platform/CPU arch and the Neo version/patch number. I also think that items 5 and 6 (and maybe 7, which is mostly what Oscar mentioned) are still directly relevant; we're essentially changing *where* *users* report bugs, not the sorts of information we want/need from users.
Oh, and we'll also still need some text telling users to, and how to, create a Bugzilla account in order to follow up with the bug that gets filed. Unless of course we plan on repeating the entire Bugzilla conversation in the forum thread and only use Bugzilla for a list of issues that get fixed (which I don't think is a good idea, if only because repeating the entire Bugzilla conversation adds *even more* work, and because moving the conversation to the forum from Bugzilla [instead of repeating it both places] means it's harder in the long term to track the details of bugs when a new fix is going to touch the same code and possibly re-open the bug, etc.--two sites to read over instead of one).
Smokey
(again with the caveat that it's late and tired, but I suspect Patrick wants to get on with the changes quickly, so my feedback now to enable that....) _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Bugzilla changes
sardisson wrote:
Since we're mentioning this text..."keeping a native version of OOo running on Mac OS X" doesn't seem quite right anymore now that OOo is a non-X11 app. I'm not sure what to replace it with (see also my other post tonight about how my brain is not working), but I do think that phrase is due for a slight refresh
I disagree. Just because OpenOffice.org is now native doesn't mean that our work got any eaiser. In fact, most of work still involves removing their Mac code and replacing it with our faster, more stable code.
This is why Fran and I have continued to use the current "limited scope" phrasing after OpenOffice.org 3.0's release.
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: Bugzilla changes
pluby wrote:
I disagree. Just because OpenOffice.org is now native doesn't mean that our work got any eaiser. In fact, most of work still involves removing their Mac code and replacing it with our faster, more stable code.
I forget to add that I agree with your other comments and I am amenable to revising the wording of our scope. However, I just wanted to make it clear that whether or not OpenOffice.org uses X11 or native Mac OS X, we still have the same amount of work to do and that is why our scope has not changed.
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Bugzilla changes
pluby wrote:
After implementing the Bugzilla changes described in this forum topic, I realized that the following NeoWiki article probably needs some slight tweaking:
I have made the first pass at the Bugzilla Guide article in English. I also made some changes to the How to Report Problems with NeoOffice to point to forum posting rather than Bugzilla, also just the English page.
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Bugzilla changes
narf wrote:
I have made the first pass at the Bugzilla Guide article in English. I also made some changes to the How to Report Problems with NeoOffice to point to forum posting rather than Bugzilla, also just the English page.
Let me know what you think,
--fran
I just skimmed the changes, but they look OK based on that
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Bugzilla changes
pluby wrote:
pluby wrote:
I disagree. Just because OpenOffice.org is now native doesn't mean that our work got any eaiser. In fact, most of work still involves removing their Mac code and replacing it with our faster, more stable code.
I forget to add that I agree with your other comments and I am amenable to revising the wording of our scope. However, I just wanted to make it clear that whether or not OpenOffice.org uses X11 or native Mac OS X, we still have the same amount of work to do and that is why our scope has not changed.
Patrick
Absolutely; I think we just need to come up with some wording tweaks that explain that the workload is still high, er, enormous, without possibly making it sound like Neo is the only "native Mac" version of OOo.
It's late again and my brain is shutting down; I'll try to think more about it tomorrow
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: Re: Bugzilla changes
narf wrote:
I have made the first pass at the Bugzilla Guide article in English. I also made some changes to the How to Report Problems with NeoOffice to point to forum posting rather than Bugzilla, also just the English page.
Translation request: I have added the English changes to the above pages in other languages. If anyone can translate the changes, it would be greatly appreciated.
"Unfortunately, our very limited funding and developer resources limits the current scope of the NeoOffice project to keeping a native version of OpenOffice.org running on Mac OS X and fixing OpenOffice.org bugs is outside that scope."
I had a thought this morning (that I nearly forgot!) about the language.
What if we simply replace "native version of OpenOffice.org on Mac OS X" with something like
* "a Mac-focused version of OpenOffice.org running"
* "a Mac-only version of OpenOffice.org running"
* "an enhanced version of OpenOffice.org running [on Mac OS X]"
* "a stable and enhanced version of OpenOffice.org running [on Mac OS X]"
etc.
The first two speak to the fact that NeoOffice is not beholden to Sun's Windows/Solaris/Linux goals and bureaucracy; we can add features for Mac users without the byzantine spec+approval+code+cws process, and we're focused specifically on Mac OS X—it's Neo's first, and only, platform.
The second two speak more to the other side of NeoOffice’s goals, of providing a very stable product (and support) as well as integrating enhancements from wherever there are good features, e.g. ooo-build as well as our own Mac stuff like Remote, Media Browser, Image Capture....
If you like the general direction of any of those, there's probably a bit more refinement we can do on the actual text, but I wanted to get the general ideas that popped into my head down on paper before I'd forgotten I had ever thought of them
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:50 am Post subject:
I actually think the "stable" language is nice...reading it the first thing that jumps into my head might be something like like "stable and proven"? While we do put in some unique Mac features, I don't think we really focus on adding lots of enhancements. Keeping everything "stable" really is where we wind up spending all our resources
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:54 am Post subject:
Yeah, I guess we've added a few... I'm just wary of making any bold claims that we're enhancing OOo itself (e.g. adding SmartArt, antialiasing, tabbed windows, etc.). It may be just my perspective, but those large infrastructure things are what come to my mind when I think of the word "enhancement". To me, the stuff we add is more like a little "polish" than big enhancements.
Can't we just state something like " We make our own native version of OpenOffice.org" implying that we take OpenOffice.org turn it into NeoOffice but are not the only native Mac OS X application.
greetz,
Henk _________________ "The mountain doesn't mind which way you climb it"
BTW I polished the Dutch version of How to report problems with NeoOffice.
Thanks fran for doing the localized pages to. _________________ "The mountain doesn't mind which way you climb it"
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