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NeoOffice :: View topic - New requirement for obtaining NeoWiki accounts
New requirement for obtaining NeoWiki accounts
 
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Lorinda
Captain Mifune


Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 2051
Location: Midwest, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm sorry that a volunteer-only forum is support forum is not an option here at trinity, I trust that Patrick and Fran have a wider/deeper view of the problems that poses, and I support their decision.

If someone is able to start a separate forum, I would give serious consideration to helping out there, in addition to continuing here.

In the mean-time, I'm wondering about the possibility of listing the OpenOffice.org Community Forums on the support page. Their banner (on the English forum) includes the following description:

Quote:
User community support forum for OpenOffice.org, StarOffice and NeoOffice


The French forum there says much the same.

There are at least two NeoOffice users who are official volunteers on the English forums--myself as kabing and exegete77. I've found it to be a friendly helpful place.

Lorinda

P.S. Looks like I've lost the ability to post links. Here are the relevant urls for the suggestions I've made:

OO.o Community Forums (language choice page): http://user.services.openoffice.org/
OO.o Community Forums in English: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/

Edit by pluby: corrected URLs after I fixed code
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11889
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorinda wrote:
In the mean-time, I'm wondering about the possibility of listing the OpenOffice.org Community Forums on the support page. Their banner (on the English forum) includes the following description:

Quote:
User community support forum for OpenOffice.org, StarOffice and NeoOffice


There is no problem for us to link to their site. However, I really would like someone who runs that site (doesn't OpenOffice.org run that site?) to contact me and confirm that they are OK with us linking to them. While their site may say they NeoOffice support, my quick scanning of recent NeoOffice posts there indicates that some people are definitely still hostile to NeoOffice and consider NeoOffice to be unfairly using the OpenOffice.org code.

Lorinda wrote:
P.S. Looks like I've lost the ability to post links. Here are the relevant urls for the suggestions I've made:


My code changes yesterday caused posting of links for all users, not just donors, to be disabled. I have added code to restore the previous functionality and I have restored the links in your post.

Patrick
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Lorinda
Captain Mifune


Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 2051
Location: Midwest, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pluby wrote:


There is no problem for us to link to their site. However, I really would like someone who runs that site (doesn't OpenOffice.org run that site?) to contact me and confirm that they are OK with us linking to them. While their site may say they NeoOffice support, my quick scanning of recent NeoOffice posts there indicates that some people are definitely still hostile to NeoOffice and consider NeoOffice to be unfairly using the OpenOffice.org code.


Patrick, while I don't frequent all the sub-forums there, in my experience there is only one volunteer who is hostile to NeoOffice. The comments he has made in this regard have been occasional, not constant, and usually in response to my more detailed posts describing NeoOffice, say for example, when someone asks which is better. Since I have been open about my own bias in such situations, I have never objected to his posts in response, even though I disagree with him. I figure we each have the right to express our opinion.

One other forum member--not a volunteer or moderator--made a few nasty comments early on in response to some of my posts, but I opted not to reply to those, and he soon stopped posting.

I just ran a search for all references to NeoOffice and read through those made since January this year, and I didn't find any "hostile" posts beyond those I described above.

I will start a discussion on the volunteer/moderators forum at OpenOffice.org community forums about whether or not the forums should be linked to on the NeoOffice support forum. That forum is closed to all but volunteers/moderators, so I can't link to it here. The governance policy is one in which volunteers and moderators have a voice, and decisions are made by consensus. I'm not sure who would be the right contact person to give you the official o.k., but we'll work that out in the thread and I can contact you by p.m. when/if that individual needs to know the best way to get in touch with you.

Lorinda
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorinda wrote:
While I'm sorry that a volunteer-only forum is support forum is not an option here at trinity, I trust that Patrick and Fran have a wider/deeper view of the problems that poses, and I support their decision.

If someone is able to start a separate forum, I would give serious consideration to helping out there, in addition to continuing here.


I am quite a bit more ambivalent. I would have liked to see an 'wild' support forum at Trinity, staffed only by volunteers. Fragmentation is not good.

I suspect Patrick also made this choice because it will also definitively remove spammers from the system and for other reasons, but it came as a surprise for me after earlier postings.

Lorinda wrote:
In the mean-time, I'm wondering about the possibility of listing the OpenOffice.org Community Forums on the support page.


This would be a very good thing, if they will agree. At the same time, perhaps we could promote the NeoWiki as a source of possible solutions to them, given that much of the codebase is the same.

Best wishes,
Oscar

_________________
"What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11889
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovvldc wrote:
Lorinda wrote:
If someone is able to start a separate forum, I would give serious consideration to helping out there, in addition to continuing here.


I am quite a bit more ambivalent. I would have liked to see an 'wild' support forum at Trinity, staffed only by volunteers. Fragmentation is not good.


Fragmentation is not good, but working the equivalent of two full-time jobs (NeoOffice has rarely allowed Fran and I to work less than 80 per week) for the last few years has proven disastrous to my physical and mental health so add that back is not something I will remotely consider.

I clearly cannot deliver all that our users want so if you want such a forum, go set one up and staff it. OOoForums.org was created this way so this is not without precedent.

Patrick
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Lorinda
Captain Mifune


Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 2051
Location: Midwest, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovvldc wrote:


Lorinda wrote:
In the mean-time, I'm wondering about the possibility of listing the OpenOffice.org Community Forums on the support page.


This would be a very good thing, if they will agree. At the same time, perhaps we could promote the NeoWiki as a source of possible solutions to them, given that much of the codebase is the same.


This is already happening, to a small degree back in late 97 I inquired about providing links to relevant Neowiki articles and got an overwhelmingly positive response. The only negative comment came from a member who was neither a volunteer nor moderator of the forum. The moderators and admins who responded were all encouraging.

So I have posted links to relevant Neowiki articles. Less so lately, only because the questions on the Base forum have moved to being over my head, and I've not invested much time in the other forums aside from the Mac-specific one.

Lorinda
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11889
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorinda wrote:
So I have posted links to relevant Neowiki articles. Less so lately, only because the questions on the Base forum have moved to being over my head, and I've not invested much time in the other forums aside from the Mac-specific one.


Feel free to continue doing that. Our web servers cost a fixed amount per month no matter the number of hits. The only limits they have is bandwidth but since viewing a NeoWiki or a Trinity page is very tiny, I am not worried about links from other sites overwhelming our site.

Patrick
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Lorinda
Captain Mifune


Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 2051
Location: Midwest, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pluby wrote:
(doesn't OpenOffice.org run that site?)


Patrick:

I missed this question of yours earlier. The OpenOffice.org provides the server space for the forums, but the forum is independent. This was discussed at some length when the forum was in the planning stages, and the leadership of the forum has been quite clear on that point. It is staffed completely by volunteers, and there is no developer input.
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11889
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lorinda wrote:
I missed this question of yours earlier. The OpenOffice.org provides the server space for the forums, but the forum is independent. This was discussed at some length when the forum was in the planning stages, and the leadership of the forum has been quite clear on that point. It is staffed completely by volunteers, and there is no developer input.


OK. Let me be clearer about what I am worried about: I want to avoid another public mudslinging that occurred throughout all of 2006 and 2007. While those that are not fans of NeoOffice may be tolerant now, I would not be surprised if we turned tolerance into intolerance if we put a big link on our support page and, when the flood of free downloaders arrives after our 27 October 2009 release, the flood spills over onto their forums.

Patrick
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Lorinda
Captain Mifune


Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 2051
Location: Midwest, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick:

I think those are legitimate concerns. I have posted a question in the forum for volunteers and moderators of the English forms at OOo Community Forums. We'll see how the conversation goes.

My apologies if it sounded like I was trying to push the point with you, that was certainly not my intent. I realized that I hadn't answered a question you had asked me, and I wanted to honor the question with a response.

Sending good thoughts your way!

Lorinda
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