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NeoOffice :: View topic - No more ugly blank window when last document is closed
No more ugly blank window when last document is closed
 
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lga
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Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

PS, just opened a 58 page .doc; it took 15 seconds to import and display. This is a basic problem with OOo 1.1 I think, and nothing to do with Neo, but it's surely something that the 2.0 developers need to overcome in their interoperability efforts.


Have you noticed that, when you load a long document in M$ Word (at least on Windows), the first page appears, but the document is not fully loaded after some time? Look at the number of pages in the status bar. I think that OOo does not compare too badly, except in some complex cases.

Of course, pipelining import and drawing would be nice...

Lga.
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing patch 4.1 Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:

PS, just opened a 58 page .doc; it took 15 seconds to import and display. This is a basic problem with OOo 1.1 I think, and nothing to do with Neo, but it's surely something that the 2.0 developers need to overcome in their interoperability efforts.


Ummm... Or the developers of Longhorn/M$ Office who just might have a part to play in ensuring interoperability of their file formats with the rest of the world? Just a thought...
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NathalieT
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmd-O doesn't seem to work. Is it the same explanation than cmd-N ?
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sardisson
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Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cmd-N is slightly more complex because it involves the different document types, but basically the problem is the same.

OOo only draws menus when there is a document open, and so those commands and shortcuts are only available with a document window. So without a window, the command will not work.

== begin long, complex explanation and discussion (summary at end) ==

If you remap Cmd-O to "Open Document" using the System Preferences, it will steal the shortcut from "Open..." in the file menu, but since Open is always Open (unlike documents, where New is Text Document in Writer, Spreadsheet in Calc, etc.), this is not a problem. Smile

I just checked and actually "Open Document" and "Open" seem to *share* the Cmd-O shortcut (I've never seen that happen; "Quit NeoOffice/J" and "Exit" in the File menu would fight and only one would get the shortcut!), so it's safe to assign Cmd-O to the quickstart menu item.

All of the other quickstart items (the document types) seem to keep the Cmd-N association when their given module is active *AND* add any additional shortcut you might assign (if you assign anything Cmd-N, though, it will always call that item and you lose the context-sensitive Cmd-N we have now). So if you can find some keystrokes that aren't used in any module (or ones you don't care about), you can assign "Text Document" a keystroke, "Spreadsheet" a keystroke, etc., in System Prefs and then invoke that keystroke from *anywhere* in Neo/J to get a new ___ document, even when the window is gone.

The problem is, as always, finding a keystroke, especially if you want a range. (Boy do we need the bitrotting patch to enable opt as an additional modifier for cmd-letter!) Evil or Very Mad

The solution, of course, is to use the very modifier key OOo won't let us use with cmd: opt! So in System Prefs, assign Cmd-Opt-1 to "Text Document", Cmd-Opt-2 to "Spreadsheet", etc.

(Remember not to use opt-character or opt-shift-char, since these are reserved for entering "letters" on Mac OS X; i.e., opt-s is ß)

== end long, complex explanation and discussion ==

In short: Cmd-O is OK for assignment (to the quickstart "Open Document") through System Prefs, so you can have that shortcut even when no windows are open. Cmd-N, however, is not OK without breaking things. Use Cmd-Opt-1 for "Text Document" and so forth (read last two paragraphs of the "long" part to explain why we're using Cmd-Opt-char for this).

Edit: I posted a new solution about 15 minutes after my first post, so please re-read if you've not seen this message or the screenshot.


my remapping of the Neo/J quickstart menu items (and a further argument for them going in a "Quickstart" submenu Smile instead of straight in the Neo/J menu)

Smokey

Edit: link in the summary to the Wiki article that gives more detail on using System Prefs to add kybd shortcuts.

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bezvardis
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Joined: Dec 10, 2004
Posts: 89
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest adding the possibility to choose behaviour of Neo when last window is closed to options or preferences as well as adding recently used documents to Quickstart menu. Here is why:

I see that there is a long history of struggling to achieve more "maclike" behaviour of Neo when the last window is closed. At the beginning when one closed the last window, Neo quit. This chould be avoided if one was closing the last window using cmd-w. Cmd-w, however, left the gray empty window open. Purists complained that it was not how Mac applications work. Perhaps, although i-photo (a mac application) closes on hitting the red button). This gave some freedom. One could train himself (like me) to use only cmd-w to close documents and cmd-q to close everything. But I agree - it could give some trouble when Neo quits and has to be restarted

Then it was patched with a "hack" that allowed the gray window stay open at all times when the last window was closed. The program would not quit unless specifically told to. Again complains that this is not how Mac applications work. However, this "hack" allowed me to see all the menus and go to open recently used files directly. It was also very clear that Neo is open when I clicked its icon in dock

The latest patch (6) makes all Neo windows close with the program staying in general open and only a simple menu visible when the icon in dock is clicked. I guess now it is the closest with what the purists describe as maclike behavior. But the downside of this is that 1) there are no other menues visible when all windows closed, which makes Neo in general litttle visible, 2) I cannot access my recently opened documents, which is an important feature. 3) I again have to re-program my mind to get accustomed to the new behaviour - not that difficult but still Smile

Having all this in mind, I would propose:
1) incorporating the last two modes of closing the last window as a special feature under preferences. I.e., that one can choose what is better - to have the gray window or not.
2) add to the Quickstart menu (if that is how the NeoOffice/J small menu is called) the list of recently used files. Then pretty much all the possible functionality apart from visibility would be covered by this menue.
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gand
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Joined: May 31, 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: No more ugly blank window when last document is closed Reply with quote

pluby wrote:
I have added the following Quickstart menu items in the "NeoOffice/J" menu:

- Text Document
- Spreadsheet
- Presentation
- Drawing
- Formula
- From Template
- Open Document

Note: these menu items are localized like the regular Neo/J menus.

Nice. Just suggest, as I remember, that when a menu item open a window (with OK, Cancel, Clear buttons) need ... (3 dots):
- Open Document...

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sardisson
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: No more ugly blank window when last document is closed Reply with quote

leonida wrote:
pluby wrote:

- Open Document

Note: these menu items are localized like the regular Neo/J menus.

Nice. Just suggest, as I remember, that when a menu item open a window (with OK, Cancel, Clear buttons) need ... (3 dots):
- Open Document...


AFAIK, these item names are provided by the OOo service (that's why they're localized) and so this is an OOo bug.... Smile

Smokey

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val1984
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Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 229
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bezvardis wrote:
I see that there is a long history of struggling to achieve more "maclike" behaviour of Neo when the last window is closed. At the beginning when one closed the last window, Neo quit. This chould be avoided if one was closing the last window using cmd-w. Cmd-w, however, left the gray empty window open. Purists complained that it was not how Mac applications work. Perhaps, although i-photo (a mac application) closes on hitting the red button). This gave some freedom. One could train himself (like me) to use only cmd-w to close documents and cmd-q to close everything. But I agree - it could give some trouble when Neo quits and has to be restarted

iPhoto opens only one window but NeoOffice opens multiple windows, that's the difference Wink
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sardisson
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

val1984 wrote:
iPhoto opens only one window but NeoOffice opens multiple windows, that's the difference Wink


And iPhoto is by far an exception rather than the rule when it comes to closing when clicking on the red button, too. Safari, TextEdit, iTunes, iCal, Activity Monitor.... Smile

Smokey

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bezvardis
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Joined: Dec 10, 2004
Posts: 89
Location: Latvia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sardisson wrote:
val1984 wrote:
iPhoto opens only one window but NeoOffice opens multiple windows, that's the difference Wink


And iPhoto is by far an exception rather than the rule when it comes to closing when clicking on the red button, too. Safari, TextEdit, iTunes, iCal, Activity Monitor.... Smile

Smokey


I agree but my point was another: there was some functionality in some of the previous versions that is now lost. What I miss the most is that I cannot now easily open recently used documents. Perhaps there is a way to add them to the menu? Since I tend to work often for a long time one the same documents, I need to open the same ones again and again. I guess that I am not the only one.
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pluby
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bezvardis wrote:
I agree but my point was another: there was some functionality in some of the previous versions that is now lost. What I miss the most is that I cannot now easily open recently used documents. Perhaps there is a way to add them to the menu? Since I tend to work often for a long time one the same documents, I need to open the same ones again and again. I guess that I am not the only one.


I understood your point when you posted it. However, what you are asking for is not a trivial amount of code as it involves changing functionality in many different areas of the OOo code that we have no experience in. The current scope of Neo/J is, and will remain, porting the existing OOo functionality to Mac OS X.

The latest change is part of the OOo's existing Quickstart functionality whereas what you propose is changing OOo's functionality.

Patrick
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bezvardis
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is why I was suggesting to add possibility to choose behaviour of Neo after the last window closes, as an option. But I guess adding another thing to the 'options' would also mean changing OOo's functionality Sad
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gand
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:59 am    Post subject: Re: No more ugly blank window when last document is closed Reply with quote

sardisson wrote:
leonida wrote:
pluby wrote:

- Open Document
Note: these menu items are localized like the regular Neo/J menus.

Nice. Just suggest, as I remember, that when a menu item open a window (with OK, Cancel, Clear buttons) need ... (3 dots):
- Open Document...

AFAIK, these item names are provided by the OOo service (that's why they're localized) and so this is an OOo bug.... Smile
Smokey


Opps, sorry, I supposed was the same as menù: File->Open...
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rays
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Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Posts: 475
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bezvardis wrote:
2) I cannot access my recently opened documents, which is an important feature..


I access my most recently opened documents using the Apple menu's built-in Recent Items... feature. As this can be accessed while in any application (including Finder and NeoOffice/J), it has become my preferred method as it takes me directly back to the recent document in one step, even if I have been checking my mail or surfing in some other application.

To change the number of recent items in the Recent Items submenu, use the Appearance preferences pane. For example, you can reduce the number of recent applications to make more room for a larger number of recent documents.

Trust this helps.

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JKT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rays wrote:
bezvardis wrote:
2) I cannot access my recently opened documents, which is an important feature..


I access my most recently opened documents using the Apple menu's built-in Recent Items... feature. As this can be accessed while in any application (including Finder and NeoOffice/J), it has become my preferred method as it takes me directly back to the recent document in one step, even if I have been checking my mail or surfing in some other application.

To change the number of recent items in the Recent Items submenu, use the Appearance preferences pane. For example, you can reduce the number of recent applications to make more room for a larger number of recent documents.

Trust this helps.

This method could be preferable to using the File> item in NeoOffice anyway as, if you have moved or changed the name of the file in the Finder for any reason, NeoOffice will fail to find it from its own File> menu item. However (I presume - I haven't actually tested it) the OS X Recent Items menu will not suffer this failing.

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