Joined: May 21, 2004 Posts: 19 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject: Size of Download.
1. I have used NeoOffice/J for over a year now, it's a Great Office Suite no complaints at all & many thanks for all the work.
2. Is there an easy way to make a smaller download?
I notice that the download contains the Binaries & Source code does one need both? I just use the software & have no idea how to pull it apart
Then main reason I am asking is that it takes over seven hours to download the new version on dialup and no one can use the phone during that time.
Many Thanks, Sue. _________________ Retired Mobile Kiwi.
G4. iBook with OSX Tiger & Neo Office.
I belive the requirements of the GPL, under which Neo/J is licensed, require the source to be distributed, too. However, the source is only 1.9 MB, so it's only a couple of minutes of your problem....
Perhaps your best option for downloading would be to use a browser that supports resumeable downloads or the curl method outlined at http://www.planamesa.com/neojava/download.php#download or download via the BitTorrent seeds, and download when no one needs the phone (at 2am in the morning). Resumable downloads or curl or BitTorrent allow you to start and stop and restart downloads at will and not lose any of the file previously downloaded and thus give you more flexibility in "scheduling" the download.
One of the things we've mentioned is trying to get an informal CD distribution operation set up once we release 1.1, to help alleviate the download size issue....
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
One of the things we've mentioned is trying to get an informal CD distribution operation set up once we release 1.1, to help alleviate the download size issue....
As an extension of that: if you have a friend with broadband internet or a colleague who has it at work or a student at university, see if you can get them to download it and burn it on a CDROM. Most new desktop and laptops can burn, so you may have a good chance. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Joined: May 21, 2004 Posts: 19 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject:
Thanks Guys,
I can resume downloads and have to as the internet connection cuts out at odd times
42 minutes to go, then get the patch and I can play with the new one. _________________ Retired Mobile Kiwi.
G4. iBook with OSX Tiger & Neo Office.
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:18 pm Post subject:
Unfortunately, there is no way to address the size of downloads...
The base X11 single-language distro for other platforms is on the order of 80-90 megs compressed, depending on platform. Any download is always going to be on the same order of magnitude. Whenever Neo/J changes to a new OOo version, the entire downlaod is required.
Patrick has responded to the download size requests, however, by providing the various "patch" installers. These frequently are nearly an order of magnitude less in size and include only the components that need updating. OOo in general has never done this and has required users to download full install packages even for minor updates.
On a personal note...
People complain about size, it's true, but for me the proliferation of non-bandwidth capped Internet access accounts is everywhere. If someone is on a bandwidth-charged wireless account, I apologize, but for most people (at least in US) it's possible to get a flat-rate per month access account. Since resumable downloads are possible, such as with curl, download size is no longer a dire concern on the part of an application provider. With flat-rate access, anyone can download any size file provided they have enough patience.
That, combined with the inevitable increase of consumer-accessible bandwidth, makes me nearly completely insensitive to complaints about binary download sizes.
I understand that some would pay a premium to get CDs or higher speed d/ls or the like and if someone wants to fulfill their need, all the power to them. Go capitalism! That's the joy of open source. Feel free to share in whatever way and whatever medium you want.
For me, I can still recall the anticipation of waiting for weeks for a download to complete over my 1200 bps modem from a local BBS only to get some lame ASCII art or a text game that was worth playing for 5 minutes. it may have biased me, but I have no sympathy for people who these days seem to abhor the thought of waiting merely overnight for a download to complete that just 10 years ago could have taken months
For me, I can still recall the anticipation of waiting for weeks for a download to complete over my 1200 bps modem from a local BBS only to get some lame ASCII art or a text game that was worth playing for 5 minutes.
Then there is the joy that is xmodeming disk 5 of some game at 300 baud to have your sister pick up the phone extension.. just as it's finishing.
OOo in general has never done this and has required users to download full install packages even for minor updates.
Which has got to hinder adoption.... At least, unlike some other pieces of software, there aren't constant security bugs being uncovered that require the user to redownload the entire thing or remain unprotected.
Speaking more generally, this is one thing that has always puzzled me, as an end-user, about open source software practices. You find a bug in a release, you report it, they tell you to check it out in a newer version or nightly (which is all well and proper; indeed, I've been the one telling bug-reporters this on many occasions). So you have to download the new version, which, in most cases these days, is a full redownload of a large, multi-megabyte file (or even better, being told to download a large, multi-megabyte file which only runs in a language you don't come close to understanding [more asked than told in this case, but still] )...this has got to get on a user's nerves at the very least--even on broadband, for some software.
Patrick is really making a good move with the patches...and I'm sure it certainly helps with his bandwidth usage, too.
OPENSTEP wrote:
That, combined with the inevitable increase of consumer-accessible bandwidth, makes me nearly completely insensitive to complaints about binary download sizes.
It's inevitable, but not coming very rapidly. It was only within the last 9 months that my dad was able to get DSL of any sort at his office...which is two miles down the street from our house, where we've had DSL since '97 or '98 (and there are numerous other subdivison's a stone's throw away from the office, so it's not like nothing's around, either). This is a highly-developed suburb of Atlanta, which is a major urban area! If there are areas like this in the suburbs of a major urban area, just imagine what the situation is like in the exurbs or rural areas or smaller cities.... Consumer broadband is still only a glimmer in their eyes
And I certainly never would have tried Neo/J had I not been able to grab 0.7 while on campus (and when Patrick wasn't over his bandwidth quota--those were the days!)
But I can't think of anything else we could be doing, aside from a CD distribution "network." Perhaps, even before the 1.1 release CDs we've talked about before, we can set up a page on the wiki where people willing to burn Neo/J .dmgs to CD for dial-up folks can sign up (with country/region)?
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Joined: May 21, 2004 Posts: 19 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:25 am Post subject:
Hey guys, it was just a simple question not a complaint.
I remember watching The King's Funeral & The Queen's Coronation on British TV but I much prefer to live in 2005 thanks...... and No the rest of the World doesn't have the same internet access as the US. Some better, most worse.
Thanks for the info,
Sue. _________________ Retired Mobile Kiwi.
G4. iBook with OSX Tiger & Neo Office.
Hey guys, it was just a simple question not a complaint.
I remember watching The King's Funeral & The Queen's Coronation on British TV but I much prefer to live in 2005 thanks...... and No the rest of the World doesn't have the same internet access as the US. Some better, most worse.
Thanks for the info,
Sue.
Bravo, Sue. We, in the USA, have to remember that some folks still pay by the minute for phone service and that some folks do not have access to DSL/Cable Services, even within the US. Thus a hard copy of software is in most cases less expensive then downloading the same package, especially for Open Source software.
In addition, I'm following a court case that is to enter the Federal Court system about providing high speed wireless access by communities instead of the traditional phone service providers. Of course, the phone companies are asking that these actions be prohibited. And I am one of those folks that do not have access (according to the phone company and other third parties) to DSL and I don't want to support our cable company which has a policy of advising customers of price increases after the fact, for high speed cable service. So, I use my cellular Internet connection (which is not capped by the way) to get files from their sources. Also, some folks like to have hard copies of software installed on their systems (in case of hard drive failures) and they do not want to burn their own CD/DVDs (this I don't have a problem with.)
Hey guys, it was just a simple question not a complaint.
We know. I think the reactions were in equal parts frustration over our inability to bring Neo/J to everyone who wants it, and a few tips, which may or may not alleviate the problem for you. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
But I can't think of anything else we could be doing, aside from a CD distribution "network." Perhaps, even before the 1.1 release CDs we've talked about before, we can set up a page on the wiki where people willing to burn Neo/J .dmgs to CD for dial-up folks can sign up (with country/region)?
Smokey
On a personal note, I would consider offering my support to such a service if there was demand and we could be sure that a donation of an agreed minimum level had been made to cover personal production and distribution costs with a bit more on top to raise funds for Patrick's efforts.
On a personal note, I would consider offering my support to such a service if there was demand and we could be sure that a donation of an agreed minimum level had been made to cover personal production and distribution costs with a bit more on top to raise funds for Patrick's efforts.
I do some contract work at this place that has CD duplication facilities. It shouldn't be too expensive to do a mass duplication (I'm also in Canada so the exchange is great).
Just to add my two cents worth, as another dial-up user:
My nephew originally gave me the beta version of NeoOfficeJ - he downloaded it on his high speed connection and saved it on a CD for me.
When the Release Candidate came out, I quickly realized it was going to take hours to download, and planned a time when I could do that without interfering with others in the household. (Unlike Sue, we do have a dedicated phone line for the computer, so it was not as much of an issue.)
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