Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:29 pm Post subject: Proper characters i open dialog/localisation
Hi!
Am using the OOo 1.1.2 final on Mac OS X 10.3.7, Apples X11.app. Mac OS language is swedish (set as primary language in the internationals preference pane in the OS). All is running like clockwork. Printing no problem in spite of lack of native driver support. The supplied ghostscript drivers work all right, and I have eps-printing working and high-resolution printing as well.
Now to the annoyance.
In the open file or save file dialogs not all swedish characters are shown correctly. (In documents there is no problem.) Characters such as å, ä, ö, —, etc are shown as empty squares or other characters. If I try to save a file containing some of these characters the save wont 'take'. If I have a file url link in a dokument containing one of these characters the link will eventually become garbled and unfunctional.
I do not mind having the menus in english for OOo, I have other programs not localised as well, and I am writing my thesis in english.
Using OOo 103, in what seems a long time ago, I could download a language package, install it via the command line and have swedish menus and proper character recognition in the dialogs. I have not found a way to localise OOo 112 in the same manner. Nor have I found it any help to change the latin code settings in the Mac OS international preference pane. I have not found any setting available to me in the Tools->Options of OOo. The language settings there seem to be more focused on the document language handling.
Installing swedish menus (and other languages) in the latest NeoJ-beta there was an installer for this that Pluby had made trouble to put together — very easy to employ.
I can not find swedish as a native language project at the OOo site, probably because it is one of the languages that Sun handles themselves. So I would have to dig into the cvs? to find the language package?
Can someone help me in either 1: advice me in how to fix the settings that makes the english version of OOo to recognise swedish characters in eg open and save dialogs, 2: advice me in how to localise OOo 1.1.2 short of having to build it from source with the right language module present. (I do not have the knowledge nor the time at present for stunts like that) With respect to part 2, can Plubys language installer be used somehow, pointed to OOo instead of to NeoJ?
Thanks for all the work you are doing keeping OOo and NeoJ working on the Mac!
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject:
I do have all of the X11 localizations for OOo 1.1.2 GM which should have the Sweedish localization. I didn't do the "localizer" for 1.1.2 like we had the previous 1.0.3 version after some of the other engineers told me that my scheme of doing the resource-only replacement was flawed. I can upload the Sweedish X11 based installer for you if you'd like. Do you have a place where I could u/l it?
I never made the X11 installer tarballs available or put them on the mirror network primarily due to space requirements/limitations. To do every language would require about 1.5 GB of space and at the time the mirror network didn't have that kind of capacity.
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject:
As to the file dialogs, that may be a "UTF8" filename encoding issue. I'm not sure if OOo X11 will recognize it properly either as I don't think the UTF8 fixes made it in time for 1.1.2. Patrick submitted the fixes to OOo so they should be in there for 2.0.
As to the file dialogs, that may be a "UTF8" filename encoding issue. I'm not sure if OOo X11 will recognize it properly either as I don't think the UTF8 fixes made it in time for 1.1.2. Patrick submitted the fixes to OOo so they should be in there for 2.0.
...And they languished forever first.
I believe Eric B. noted in another thread that one of his 1.1.3(?) packages had the UTF patch in it, but I don't know if that was just because he was on top of things and wanted a "working" 1.1.3-fr or if the patch eventually landed on the 1.1 branch....
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:17 pm Post subject:
We'll see if I wind up doing the final 2.0/1.3/whatever/X11 builds but historically I've included patches that haven't been committed to the mainline or approved to the mainline (e.g. OS X specific printing patches, the "Command" key patch, etc.). The UTF8 ones unfortunately were under my radar for 1.1.2.
To an extent it may be my fault, as well since I assembled the final 1.1.2 release with the intention of maintaining 10.2 compatibility with a higher priority then some of the localization fixes. Many of the localization fixes would have required the production of binaries that were compatible with 10.3 only. Back when I did the 1.1.2 release, the installed user base statistics really did point to the importance of maintaining compatibility with 10.2 as the majority of OS X users were on 10.2. It seemed that the issues were mostly related to two byte languages and the single-byte European languages should be fine. The file open issue was noted by Eric and other French testers, but we released it anyway.
The internationalization vs. 10.2 compatibility issue will be existant for OOo 2.0/X11 etc. as well. At what point do we drop 10.2? Dropping 10.1 was a bit more palatable, but evidence shows that there is a large installed 10.2 user base that sees no need to upgrade their operating system. It makes sense too as 10.2 was the first truly "5 9's" version of OS X.
This is also one of the primary motivators for keeping NeoJ at Java 1.3.1...the Java 1.4s that are available for 10.2 *suck ass* and are buggier then Windows ME.
Anyway, I doubt that's an answer, but it's a bit more of a harbiner of what's in OOo X11's future: at what point do we drop 10.2?
The internationalization vs. 10.2 compatibility issue will be existant for OOo 2.0/X11 etc. as well. At what point do we drop 10.2? Dropping 10.1 was a bit more palatable, but evidence shows that there is a large installed 10.2 user base that sees no need to upgrade their operating system. It makes sense too as 10.2 was the first truly "5 9's" version of OS X.
[...]
Anyway, I doubt that's an answer, but it's a bit more of a harbiner of what's in OOo X11's future: at what point do we drop 10.2?
I suppose it depends on whether or not 2.0 forces the matter. Reports I've seen on dev@porting note that XCode 1.5 with the latest gcc update is recommened for building 2.0, since anything earlier than that had lots of problems. (Just as 10.4 might force the Java issue for Neo/J....)
There was a great article I read a couple of months ago...I think by the auther of one of the RSS readers (a note to the "new net arrivals": a newsreader is an application like the classic trio of Norstad-Fraser-Clark NewsWatcher/MT-NW/YA-NW) about when to drop support for 10.2...(ah, here and here). It's easy when things continue to work or new features gracefully degrade...somehow I don't see that happening with OOo, though.
I like the OS n-1 rule, personally. I tend to upgrade once every two major/paid versions...7.5 (from 6.0.8 on the used Macs I started with, the biggest leap ever), 8.0/8.1, 9.0.4/9.1, 10.2.7 on the new PB and the only reason I'm on 10.3 is because I could "Up-to-Date" for $19 or whatever (and it promised improved RTL support). Given that Apple's development cycle is at least a year these days, n-1 seems reasonable for folks who can't buy a new OS every year. If n-2 happens to work also, well great.
10.4 and 2.0/Sun platforms are both expected about the same time, right, Mar/Apr 05?
Anyway, I think I'm just rambling here....
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Thanks for answers, and thanks for the offer of the Swedish language installer.
So, if I understand this right, Swedish localisation by itself will not help the open/save dialog issue. It is a 'plain' bug in another part of the application. The only way to cure it is to build a new version containing the utf-8 patch.
As I do not have a place for you to upload the language module (sitting in a home office of my own as a client on an adsl-connection) I feel I have to 'endure' the situation with having the bug present, and english menus, until there will be a new build of OOo 1.1.x or 2.x for Mac X11 available for download from somewhere. I appreciate all the work needed in order to build a new X11 version for public distribution, but non the less I long for one. Is the Fink path to install X11 software a possible middle way if just the bug fixed version of OOo is available?
I love the hand in glove integration of NeoJ into OS X with eg the native printing and font handling — but functionality comes first. The lack of eps-printing support was a divider for me (combined with maximum 300 dpi printing resolution of graphics). Until this works I will have to use the X11 port. It has its advantages. Speed, scrolling speed increase compared to NeoJ in large spreadsheets or large documents is not insignificant. (PM G4 single processor 1 GHz 768 Mb RAM) Menus in the document window, yes right. I have a two monitor setup and with OOo X11 I can have menus at the top of both monitors — having the KaleidaGraph datasheet and graph windows open in the main monitor and the thesis text in OOo Writer X11 in the secondary monitor.
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