Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: Why all the anger?
Since I released Neo/J 1.1 Release Candidate, I have noticed a surge in very angry, accusatory, and just plain rude mail from new users (see bug 661 for a sample).
I had always received the occasional nasty gram, but the sudden surge after this release makes me think that Neo/J is suddenly tapping into a whole different type of user than before.
Frankly, this type of user is the type that makes me wonder why I bother releasing Neo/J. This is sad because I know that most users are rational, helpful, and reasonable.
Nevertheless, I find that dealing with the angry and rude users to be very timeconsuming and miserable work. In essence, they steal time away from the majority of people who are diligently documenting bugs and testing.
So, my question is how can I make Neo/J unappealing to people who has unrealistic expectations? Neo/J is far from perfect but despite my warnings, a certain percentage of people download it anyway and get angry when it isn't perfect. It would seem logical to me that such users would actually save both themselves and the Neo/J community a lot of hassle if they didn't download it in the first place. Any suggestions that others might have would be very much appreciated.
I think people are stranges, but I'm strange too, so I think this is normal.
About false expetation, I think a more deep 'read me', or a 'warning' document could be a nice idea for the final release. I think about bug like 286 for example: a document explaining what is working, what is not, and what workaround has to be used, could be a good accompanying for the application.
About false expetation, I think a more deep 'read me', or a 'warning' document could be a nice idea for the final release. I think about bug like 286 for example: a document explaining what is working, what is not, and what workaround has to be used, could be a good accompanying for the application.
Maybe I can change the links on the download page so that a really simple page warns them that Neo/J may not be perfect and that recommends that they don't install Neo/J if this makes them uncomforable before the download starts. This can be updated easily as new issues are found without requiring a new release.
My goal is not to avoid certain users (after all, bug 661 is a serious bug that I want to fix), I just want people to realize that Neo/J is not perfect and there is always some risk that there may be some horrible bug. I believe that if people know the risk before they download it, they can them make a reasonable decision whether to download it or not. After all, making a new user angry does not help Neo/J or the user.
Maybe I can change the links on the download page so that a really simple page warns them that Neo/J may not be perfect and that recommends that they don't install Neo/J if this makes them uncomforable before the download starts. This can be updated easily as new issues are found without requiring a new release.
I suppose it is a consequence of getting 5 stars in Versiontracker: people come with utterly unrealistic expectations. I guess a warning is in order, but then again, there are screenshots out there.
pluby wrote:
My goal is not to avoid certain users (after all, bug 661 is a serious bug that I want to fix), I just want people to realize that Neo/J is not perfect and there is always some risk that there may be some horrible bug. I believe that if people know the risk before they download it, they can them make a reasonable decision whether to download it or not. After all, making a new user angry does not help Neo/J or the user.
Well, I downloaded and installed 1.1rc and my .doc and .xls files still point to Office by default, and I am using 10.3.8.
In any case, this person is overreacting. You just use the info option and change them back. Is that tip in the wiki, btw? _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Well, I downloaded and installed 1.1rc and my .doc and .xls files still point to Office by default, and I am using 10.3.8.
I did a complete uninstall of Neo/J and then installed MS Office 2001 and then Neo/J. After a reboot, my *.doc files had MS Office listed as the default.
But that doesn't mean that there isn't a bug. Which version of MS Office are you using? My current theory (really just a guess) is that the bug only occurs with versions of MS Office that were released prior to Mac OS X's first release. In these versions, MS Office probably doesn't have an Info.plist file so the fact that Neo/J has one makes it the default application even if set the "default=false" attribute in Neo/J's Info.plist.
This is kind of the thing I had in mind when I filed the bug about having a Readme *in* the installer itself (putting it in users' faces one more time, and making them click through), but perhaps stopping them from downloading 112 MB first is a better idea
It's a fine line we've been walking between making Neo/J seem too dangerous for a lot of folks who would benefit from it and promoting it actively, which seems to snare people with unrealistic expectations. We've definitely swung towards more promotion as we've gotten nearer to the mythical "1.1 release."
Ideally a page could be both warning and friendly...you know, in a world without war
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
But that doesn't mean that there isn't a bug. Which version of MS Office are you using? My current theory (really just a guess) is that the bug only occurs with versions of MS Office that were released prior to Mac OS X's first release. In these versions, MS Office probably doesn't have an Info.plist file so the fact that Neo/J has one makes it the default application even if set the "default=false" attribute in Neo/J's Info.plist.
That may well be the case. I have a vague memory of something like this happening to my WordPerfect documents at one time, but I didn't think much of it at the time and went on about my merry way (WP for Mac is installed on my Mac, but it's a Classic-only app for sure!)
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
This is kind of the thing I had in mind when I filed the bug about having a Readme *in* the installer itself (putting it in users' faces one more time, and making them click through), but perhaps stopping them from downloading 112 MB first is a better idea
And more importantly, we can update the page after the release goes out. This is nice because we always find bugs after a release.
I just want people to realize that Neo/J is not perfect and there is always some risk that there may be some horrible bug. I believe that if people know the risk before they download it, they can them make a reasonable decision whether to download it or not. After all, making a new user angry does not help Neo/J or the user.
Patrick
The original bug reporter needs to calm the hell down. He claims to be an expert in software testing and calls the developers "arrogant" in a bug report?! Is this what he teaches his students?
I don't think you need a big "this program may not be 100% perfect" warning because that applies to ALL software!! And it's an unfortunate fact that some people who use Neo are just going to be uptight whiney babies. If Neo/J were a commercial software, you might adopt the "customer is always right" stance, but if a user has a problem, he can either be polite, stop using it, fix it himself, and/or all of the above.
Oh, and nice of this guy to help find this bug during the lengthy beta testing phase.
That's my opinion. You know we really value your hard work, Patrick & Ed...
Joined: Sep 18, 2003 Posts: 434 Location: London, UK
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:59 am Post subject:
If it's any consolation, I've had AbiWord do this to me as well (hijack the file type associations), and that is a drag and drop installation!!
If anything, it seems to me that this is likely to be an Apple/OS XS bug or feature. I think there may have been a thread about it with an explanation as to why it happens at MacNN... I'll see if I can hunt it down.
besides if he were an expert software tester he would know what such terms as 'beta' and 'RC1' meant...
Maybe the installer should contain a screen, just after the license, that this software is provided 'as is' and while every effort has been made to have this application work beautifully, there are no guarantees. In the unlikely and unfortunate event of a bug or crash, users should inform the developers. Contributions, in the form of usage tips, testing, code and cash are very welcome..
I understand this is in the install/readme as well, but to somehow put it in in such a way that you must scroll past everything to have it actually install might help.
As for the rest, 1% complaining on 99% happy users is not bad - at all. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:43 am Post subject:
It's sad, but probably what's happening is that now we're finally getting into the realm of "normal" users. I get forwarded tech support stuff from my real job and many a time you'd be amazed at the kind of garbage most users give to tech support and bug reports. I've had PhD's send in pages and pages of rants about how we're not doing our job correctly when we simply ask them for more details to reproduce their bug.
Thankfully as being open source we don't have customers that we are required to support.
I posit that anyone that doesn't have a certain air of politeness doesn't get support. Rude posts get transferred to the Rants topic. Rude bug reports get closed with a new "Be more polite/Take a breather" status we add in.
Thoughts? Worst that can happen is that impolite people get further inflamed and go away. Since we're not a company and don't need to drag ourselves in the dirt to get their payola, I personally don't see any problem with that. After all the work that everyone has done I think a little civility is the least that could be expected
Maybe the installer should contain a screen, just after the license, that this software is provided 'as is' and while every effort has been made to have this application work beautifully, there are no guarantees. In the unlikely and unfortunate event of a bug or crash, users should inform the developers. Contributions, in the form of usage tips, testing, code and cash are very welcome...
The only place for this in the Apple installer is *before* the license, either as the welcome message or the readme (you can see a sample in my installers for the libwpd tools). Neo/J currently has neither.
ovvldc wrote:
I understand this is in the install/readme as well, but to somehow put it in in such a way that you must scroll past everything to have it actually install might help.
Will it help or not? Dunno. I've mentioned it, too. There's perhaps some argument for having a stern warning in the pre-release versions, but Beta and RC have been really solid for most of us, and even GM/final might have some noticeable bugs--as Patrick has mentioned before, Neo/J doesn't follow the traditional commercial conception of releases. There's no paid QA department, Patrick's alpha/beta releases rarely have crashers that you so often see in commercial alphas/betas, and even the testing community we've built up can't possibly cover every feature of such a big suite in so many possible configurations....
I'd really like to see some sort of welcome screen in the installer, but I think the option mentioned earlier--stopping them from downloading first--is a better step....
ovvldc wrote:
As for the rest, 1% complaining on 99% happy users is not bad - at all.
Except when they make Patrick upset and frustrated
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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