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NeoOffice :: View topic - Development plans for 2005 (and maybe 2006)
Development plans for 2005 (and maybe 2006)
 
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human
Pure-blooded Human


Joined: Jan 04, 2005
Posts: 36
Location: Planet Earth

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the official release. Great job! Your development roadmap looks pretty exciting--and ambitious. Wish I were a programmer so I could help out "under the hood". But I will continue to acting as an advocate, singing NeoOfficeJ's praises and passing along copies to all my Mac using friends. Those using Windows get OOo.
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iwadasn
Blue Pill


Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject: Perhaps there is another way..... Reply with quote

First a disclaimer, I haven't looked at the OOO code in a long time, but....

If you have done enough to pull off the GUI and render it in Java, then maybe it would be possible to pull in a lot of the rest of it. Converting more of the C code to java might help to smooth things over, and if one day the whole thing could be pulled into java, then you would entirely circumvent the problems caused by the mac move to intel.

Of course this would be an enormous task, though I imagine that most of the nastiness comes from the GUI, printing, and file system access. Any pure, raw C code should be much easier to convert. If you've already pulled off the nasty edges, then perhaps it would be more productive to convert the rest than to try to struggle forward with a hybrid approach.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pluby wrote:
The big limitation is developer time. The OOo code has some hairy assembler code [...]

Out of curiosity, why does OOo has any assember code?

Also couldn't you use the x86 OOo assembler code for the Mactel version?
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go on the OOo site and search for UNO...it's essentially a clone of COM and lies underneath the entire application. It's a language independent component glue layer. Because we need to map calling conventions, parameter passing, exceptions, etc. across multiple languages this requires some really hairy work in assembly. Each language and most times each compiler has its own concept of how such low-level things work.

Due to similar logic, we can't just reuse the x86 code since Apple x86 gcc calling conventions (ABI) are not necessarily the same as on Linux or Windows. In fact, their documentation still states the ABI hasn't been finalized, which also makes things a bit dicey.

ed
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly


Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
pluby wrote:
The big limitation is developer time. The OOo code has some hairy assembler code [...]

Out of curiosity, why does OOo has any assember code?

Also couldn't you use the x86 OOo assembler code for the Mactel version?


As a long time programmer, I can answer this very simply:

It makes things fly and can do things that cannot be done in a high level language (c, C++, Java, COBOL, etc.) However, its use should only be when and if the higher level languages cannot support what you are trying to do. And if you want to look at what assembler can do, take a look at some early virus code (and their derivatives.) There is a major hurdle to overcome with assembler code, it is very machine specific. Thus code written for the PPC platform will not work (usually) on X86 systems and vice versa. Thus code has to be written for the machine type (be it Intel or MacIntosh) for each supported computer system. With the introduction of the MacIntel, assembler code will have to be written for it. Yes, elimination of assembler code should be a goal of the OOo team, but it has to be there for some functions of the program.

James
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biquette
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:54 am    Post subject: Thank you !!! Reply with quote

Thank you for all the work you do for us. I am a Law student and NeoOffice helps me a lot because I cannot write with my own hands and a good word processor is esssential for me to take note and pass my exams. I do not have iWork and will continue to use NeoOffice as I know it has improved much since I started with OOo before switching definitely to your application.

Thank you.

As a now NeOffice well, I will contribute as a tester. Smile
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Thank you !!! Reply with quote

biquette wrote:
Thank you for all the work you do for us. I am a Law student and NeoOffice helps me a lot because I cannot write with my own hands and a good word processor is esssential for me to take note and pass my exams.


Sounds hard. Good luck with that and take heart: A friend of mine has very reduced eyesight and she recently graduated and then got accepted into the training program for judges.

_________________
"What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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biquette
Blue Pill


Joined: Aug 13, 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:31 am    Post subject: Thank you for supporting me ! Reply with quote

ovvldc wrote:
biquette wrote:
Thank you for all the work you do for us. I am a Law student and NeoOffice helps me a lot because I cannot write with my own hands and a good word processor is esssential for me to take note and pass my exams.


Sounds hard. Good luck with that and take heart: A friend of mine has very reduced eyesight and she recently graduated and then got accepted into the training program for judges.


Thank you very much for this nice message. I don't know if it's a coincidence but I also want to become a magistrate. Smile
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BlackGriffen
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:10 pm    Post subject: OO.org license change Reply with quote

Sorry if this is redundant, but have NO/J developement plans changed any because of the announcement of OO.org's switch to LGPL? I ask because I understand that part of the contention was over licensing, and was thus unsure what if any changes there would be in the plans.

BG
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11856
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: OO.org license change Reply with quote

BlackGriffen wrote:
Sorry if this is redundant, but have NO/J developement plans changed any because of the announcement of OO.org's switch to LGPL? I ask because I understand that part of the contention was over licensing, and was thus unsure what if any changes there would be in the plans.


This does not change anything for Neo/J as OOo has always been available under the LGPL. The announcement wasn't that OOo is switching to LGPL but that they are dropping the SISSL license.

Patrick
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brief correction: NeoJ is available under full GPL v2, not LGPL. It doesn't change the situation, though.

ed
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been three months since the initial roadmap was published. From what I've read, the following has been accomplished:

Building on 10.4 - Yes
Building on GCC 4 - Yes (as of today)
Moving to new VM - Yes (also as of today, but needs testing)

Excellent work! I just was curious if things are moving on schedule in the developers minds, are you ahead, behind, has it been more or less challenging to get to this point?

And who among you (Patrick, Ed or James) will be first in line for the Intel Mac Mini when they appear next June?

Congrats on all your progress!
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
From what I've read, the following has been accomplished:

Building on 10.4 - Yes
Building on GCC 4 - Yes (as of today)
Moving to new VM - Yes (also as of today, but needs testing)


Just a note, in case it's not clear...points 1 and 2 happened in parallel, and in a vacuum, so to speak, from point 3, so Neo/J does not yet build on 10.4 with GCC 4 and use the 1.4.2 JVM all in one.... The two "branches" still need to be integrated, and Ed might have to patch Neo/J-specific code for GCC 4, too.

Or at least that's what I understand. Maybe I'm the one who's not clear Smile

At any rate, this is indeed impressive!--and much further along than I expected, FWIW (And look, Neo/J 1.1 was out for three months before OOo 1.1.5 finally shipped. I'm glad we didn't wait on that for 1.1 final! Very Happy)

Thanks to Patrick and Ed for all their hard work and sacrifices and also to all the Neo/J donors for helping make the work possible.

Smokey

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"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sardisson wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
From what I've read, the following has been accomplished:

Building on 10.4 - Yes
Building on GCC 4 - Yes (as of today)
Moving to new VM - Yes (also as of today, but needs testing)


Just a note, in case it's not clear...points 1 and 2 happened in parallel, and in a vacuum, so to speak, from point 3, so Neo/J does not yet build on 10.4 with GCC 4 and use the 1.4.2 JVM all in one.... The two "branches" still need to be integrated, and Ed might have to patch Neo/J-specific code for GCC 4, too.

Or at least that's what I understand. Maybe I'm the one who's not clear Smile


Yes, very true. Hopfully all the branches will play well together. Smile
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly


Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sardisson wrote:


Just a note, in case it's not clear...points 1 and 2 happened in parallel, and in a vacuum, so to speak, from point 3, so Neo/J does not yet build on 10.4 with GCC 4 and use the 1.4.2 JVM all in one.... The two "branches" still need to be integrated, and Ed might have to patch Neo/J-specific code for GCC 4, too.


Yes, the two branches need to be merged, but that should be simpler than the work that it took to get the OO code to compile under GCC4 and the Java 1.4 work that Patrick did on the MacOSX front end.

I hope to see both in and 1.1.5 as the baseline OOo in the very near future. Maybe Neo/J 1.2 is not that far away.

James
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