Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:31 am Post subject: macslash comment
there is a neo/j comment under the Java article on macslash, could someone who is not behind a firewall (**cursing noises**) go and reply that neo is NOT cocoa but carbon.
ok, on a side-rant, why is it that so many of the slash-posters are all about how neo/j is going to fail?
The same reason none of them actually read the original article. This is the Cocoa-Java thing Waldo brought up yesterday, and MacSlash instead kneee-jerks "Apple: You Can't Develop In Java Anymore"
Geez, people, get a life. 90% of the world has one and lives it without pushing some private vendetta-agenda down everyone's throat.
Oh, sorry, that was meant for MacSlash.
jakeOSX wrote:
smokey, we need a page on the wiki, here is the title:
Everything you don't know about Neo/J (And why you are wrong and shouldn't post stuff)
ok, we can leave the part in parenthesis out...
Time to rename "NeoOffice/J and Aqua" again? (I forget what it was called originally.) I actually have a couple more FAQ entries to go on that page
jakeOSX wrote:
-j (who made it a PNG, but was still unable to fix the french)
1 for 2 is not bad...it's beautiful
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Also on that note, I think we need to re-think our "one-line" explanation of Neo/J on the Main Page.
Right now it reads
NeoWiki wrote:
The stable, fast Java-based version. Actively developed and recommended to new users. (Note: "J" is for Java, used to facilitate the User Interface for Mac OS X. NeoOffice/J is 99% written in C++!)
and its analogue, Neo/C, reads
NeoWiki wrote:
NeoOffice/C, the older, highly experimental, less-stable Cocoa-based version. (Note: "C" is for Cocoa. That's good enough for me.)
.
I don't suppose it's imperative to keep them "parallel" (it'd be nice), but "Java-based" I think is too much of a misnomer these days....
How about this
The stable, fast, actively developed version, recommended to new users. (Note: "J" is for Java, used in small amounts to facilitate the Mac OS X User Interface. NeoOffice/J is 99% written in C++!)
for Neo/J, and this
The older, highly experimental, less-stable version. (Note: "C" is for Cocoa. That's good enough for me.)
for Neo/C?
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Did some preliminary work on updating the "Neo/J and Aqua" article, but not the meaty new FAQs (why not QT/gtk, how exactly is Java used in Neo/J, etc.).
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Last edited by sardisson on Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jul 01, 2004 Posts: 45 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:38 am Post subject: /j /c mac/
The wiki page is very helpful (note to self: must find out how to do stuff on wiki and be more useful). But looking at the suggested mods for the front page I wonder if we should adopt a more radical approach.
What if we don't explain the /j and /c, but simply say /j is the one to use and /c was an earlier experimental version - with no mention of cocoa? There could be a link to the new 'read before you post' page for the people who need to know. (The unspoken, inaccurate, but possibly helpful implication would be that there have been /d, /e, /f, etc.) After all, most people don't need/want to know the prehistory.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:08 am Post subject: Re: /j /c mac/
MrGruff wrote:
What if we don't explain the /j and /c, but simply say /j is the one to use and /c was an earlier experimental version - with no mention of cocoa?
I'm certainly not attached to them. IIRC, they appeared in December when Beta was ready to go and Neo/J was getting more recognition (and people confusing it with Neo/C) and Ed was renaming and closing up shop on Neo/C for the forseeable future and we needed to help people keep things straight. Then came the issue that to some people "/J" meant a Japanese version, "classic" Mac OS-style, but that renaming Neo/J would cause even more confusion...what a pickle it was then.
At this point I think Neo/C has been asleep long enough, and Neo/J active and promoted enough, that it's probably safe to do as MrGruff suggests--as long as the Japanese issue is also considered to be a non-issue. As Oscar notes, a duck is a duck; most people don't care if the duck drinks coffee or hot chocolate, and for those who do, we have a rather substantial "FAQ" about design and development in the "Neo/J and Aqua" article.
Others?
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:17 am Post subject: Re: /j /c mac/
I think the "J" should be dropped as soon as it's decently possible. I put off trying the program for a long while (alas!), thinking it meant a Japanese version. And most of those who know it means Java misunderstand its significance and are put off for a different reason.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: Re: /j /c mac/
Anonymous wrote:
I think the "J" should be dropped as soon as it's decently possible. I put off trying the program for a long while (alas!), thinking it meant a Japanese version. And most of those who know it means Java misunderstand its significance and are put off for a different reason.
I agree. And if not / in the mean time,
Quote:
The stable, fast, actively developed version, recommended to new users. (Note: "J" is for Java, used in small amounts to facilitate the Mac OS X User Interface. NeoOffice/J is 99% written in C++!)
is a good one.
Oscar _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
As to the name of the app (tangential to removing "Java" from the one-sentence description in the wiki):
I think we're probably going to have the "NeoOffice/J" moniker at least through the 1.x cycle. IIRC from December, Patrick didn't seem too keen on dropping the /J in general (and especially since that would have been a bad time to do it).
The consensus in December seemed to be that we should keep the /J in the name through 1.x and that 2.0, "fully-Aquafied" (Ed's widgets and the icon project's icons) and based off of the OOo 2.0.x codebase, heir to the stability of Neo/J and the blue buttons of Neo/C, would be rebranded NeoOffice 2.0. (Neither Ed nor Patrick really weighed in on that part, though.)
When we approach the next release we can revisit the topic again, but right now we're "NeoOffice/J"
(Common usage on the net atm seems to be 50/50 in my surfing....)
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
The older, highly experimental, less-stable version. (Note: "C" is for Cocoa. That's good enough for me.)
for Neo/C?
Something wierd happens to the layout when the tagline doesn't wrap to two lines, and I don't understand the strange funky-wiki-table syntax used there, so I just added "not recommended for any sort of use" to the end of the Neo/C tagline (the Neo/J tagline still wraps nicely).
It's not ideal, but it will work until someone who understands that funky-wiki-table syntax can figure out why the table part was shifted right when the tagline didn't wrap to two lines.
I've also taken a stab at updating the French versions at Fr:Accueil, so val1984/Max, please correct and "de-literal-ify" my translations
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
I've also taken a stab at updating the French versions at Fr:Accueil, so val1984/Max, please correct and "de-literal-ify" my translations
Done
Merci beaucoup!
I also did some English updates of the Neo/J and Aqua article last week, but more changes are coming soon (maybe even tonight), if you want to wait before updating the French version.
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
I hope the first one didn't interrupt the "flow" of the questions; that's part of the reason the second one is at the end, to not interrupt the flow of the Java questions. The second one also seems a bit rougher, so some polish is welcome.
I have not updated the "why not Java 1.4/1.5" FAQ yet; part of me thinks we need to let Patrick issue an official announcement to our 10.2.x folks before changing it. 99% of the answer is still valid, anyway.
Thanks Ed and Patrick for the answers that form the majority of those two FAQs (even verbatim in parts ).
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
(I forget what it was called originally.) I actually have a couple more FAQ entries to go on that page 
