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NeoOffice :: View topic - NeoOffice/J 1.2 Alpha
NeoOffice/J 1.2 Alpha
 
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly


Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject:

Adam_Moore wrote:
Is there a problem with using a portable HD? Like a USB hard drive? It would save you definitely some time and probably some money. I understand it's a powerbook and you would like it to be portable, but you could use this just for building NeoOffice and you would only have to plug it in when you need it.

Just a thought.


Thanks for pointing that out. I think that I have a portable HD somewhere in the house. However, if I were to go the external HD route, is there a self-powered (powered from the USB port) hard drive enclosure that I could put the 80GB drive into or would I have to find a small enclosure that would take the drive, but require external power? (I'm hoping that is not too confusing.)

James
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:53 pm    Post subject:

If you're going to use an external usb hdd, there's less point in having a really fast drive (7200) because you're stuck with the bottleneck of the usb connexion. If you do want to build your own, it shouldn't be a problem running an 80Gb disc just on bus power (there are certainly such drives that size on the market, e.g. SmartDisk).

But the cost of a good enclosure on its own is such that you might want to consider just getting a brand new ready-made external usb2/firewire drive (if your pb has the ports for either of those) as it might not cost much more than the enclosure alone, and will be new technology with a warranty and everything.

But but: the cost of a good external drive is probably equivalent to paying a store to install your fast internal one, and then you'd have the fastest and most portable possible option.

Hope this is useful reflection - it's late here...

- yoxi
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject:

USB hard drives are for clueless morons. Get a firewire hard drive. Better yet, get a firewire hard drive enclosure for laptop drives and put a fast (but expensive) 7200 hard drive in it and it is low power enough to be run directly from the firewire port. www.otherworldcomputing.com
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:56 pm    Post subject:

yoxi wrote:
(Hmm - you can get 7200's for pb's now? Maybe I should... no, you're saving up for an iMac, stop it. But only £103 for a 60Gb? Oh, be quiet - you're getting married on Saturday, remember? What makes you think you'll have any money left after that? Oh, alright...)

- yoxi

Congrats on that, btw Smile (Alf mabrouk!)

Smokey
who will be wandering around central Ohio on Saturday

_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly


Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:25 pm    Post subject:

Anonymous wrote:
USB hard drives are for clueless morons. Get a firewire hard drive. Better yet, get a firewire hard drive enclosure for laptop drives and put a fast (but expensive) 7200 hard drive in it and it is low power enough to be run directly from the firewire port. www.otherworldcomputing.com


You know, I get a lot of good ideas from you guys. Ok, I'll look for a FireWire box. The PB has one FireWire port. I'll give feedback when I get the drive.

James
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buzmeg
Blue Pill


Joined: Aug 30, 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Hard drives and stuff

There are self-powered external hard drives. Generally they are 2.5" drives, though.

The bigger consideration is that USB drives just really seem not to work very well with (both OS X and Windows). Practically every USB drive I have used failed in sometimes very mysterious ways. Only one worked right.

Firewire, OTOH, has just worked flawlessly no matter where I use it.
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lga
Sentinel


Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:47 am    Post subject:

What I would do is
- Buy a self-powered 2.5" external Firewire 7200 HD ;
- Use it as an external (fast) HD
- Later on, clone the internal HD on it and exchange them so you get a fast drive inside and a backup drive outside. For the later phase, you can either study at leisure the exchange procedures (look at http://www.pbfixit.com/Guide/ for a good one) or find a friend to do it for you.

You need care in doing the replacement, but it is really not that hard, at least on a TiBook, I've done it twice.

In addition, you'll probably get a much quieter powerbook. She may appreciate it Smile.

Congratulations too.

Lga.
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val1984
Oracle


Joined: May 30, 2005
Posts: 229
Location: France

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:03 am    Post subject:

I have a noname 2.5" FW/USB2 enclosure and my AlBook doesn't provide enough power via its USB ports but it's OK with Firewire Smile
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JKT
The Anomaly
(earlier version)


Joined: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 434
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:29 am    Post subject:

Two places I have successfully used to get FW/USB2 enclosure kits in the past:

http://www.fwdepot.com/thestore/default.php

http://www.firewiredirect.com/

They also sell complete externals, fwiw.

For those of you who are UK based:

http://www.rlsupplies.co.uk/Products/default.asp?type=dept&DepartmentID=91&MID=

_________________
PBG4, 1.5GHz, SuperDrive, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 5400rpm 80GB HD, MacOS X 10.4.5

Please visit The Land Gallery at http://www.thelandgallery.com for nature-inspired British Fine Art
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Adam_Moore
Pure-blooded Human


Joined: Jul 10, 2005
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject:

Anonymous wrote:
USB hard drives are for clueless morons. Get a firewire hard drive. Better yet, get a firewire hard drive enclosure for laptop drives and put a fast (but expensive) 7200 hard drive in it and it is low power enough to be run directly from the firewire port. www.otherworldcomputing.com


Sorry for being a clueless moron.
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Adam_Moore
Pure-blooded Human


Joined: Jul 10, 2005
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:06 am    Post subject:

yoxi wrote:
If you're going to use an external usb hdd, there's less point in having a really fast drive (7200) because you're stuck with the bottleneck of the usb connexion. If you do want to build your own, it shouldn't be a problem running an 80Gb disc just on bus power (there are certainly such drives that size on the market, e.g. SmartDisk).


- yoxi


This is true you will get at most 100MB/s out of a internal hd and usb2 will give you at most 60MB/s and Firewire will give you at most 50MB/s.

_________________
Adam Moore
OpenDocument Fellowship
Adam.Moore@opendocumentfellowship.org
Demand Microsoft Support OpenDocument
http://opendocumentfellowship.org/petition/
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lga
Sentinel


Joined: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 25
Location: Paris, France

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Well, this is starting to get slightly off topic Smile.

Actually, USB2 is less likely to get maximum throughput than firewire, especially on a mac. In addition, USB2 is more processor intensive than Firewire, so actually on a mac you are better off using firewire.

In addition, the throughput of your 2.5" will probably not saturate the link.

Finally, the 7200 rpm HD not only has a better bandwith, but it has a better latency, and that is very important when compiling.

Lga.
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly


Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:41 am    Post subject:

lga wrote:
Well, this is starting to get slightly off topic Smile.

Actually, USB2 is less likely to get maximum throughput than firewire, especially on a mac. In addition, USB2 is more processor intensive than Firewire, so actually on a mac you are better off using firewire.


I will agree that USB2 is much more processor intensive than FireWire.

lga' wrote:

In addition, the throughput of your 2.5" will probably not saturate the link.

True for USB2, but not for USB1.1.

lga wrote:

Finally, the 7200 rpm HD not only has a better bandwith, but it has a better latency, and that is very important when compiling.


On the Thinkpad that I used the drive on, the change was very noticable. I was compiling Linux Kernels on an almost daily basis. It took about two hours less to compile with the 7200 rpm drive. That is why I wanted to install it on the PBG4. I will be up in Tucson this weekend and I will attempt to go to the store where I bought the system from and see if they can install the drive. Barring that, I may have to delve into the PBG4 manuals and see if I can attempt to do it myself.

James
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly


Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:56 am    Post subject:

pluby wrote:
jjmckenzie51 wrote:
Building again. I still need to find the reason that I'm getting all of the warnings.


Those warnings are normal for the OOo build and are not due to any Neo/J modifications.


It appears that someone is working on some of the warnings.

I do want to point out something that is happening in Calc. If you copy and paste a formula from one cell to another, the formula is not appearing in the edit box at the top until you move away from the cell and move back. Also, an underline is appearing in cells after about ten seconds. Sometimes moving away from the cell and back will remove the underline and in other cases the underline will stay in the cell.

And I've built 1.2 using 1.1.5rc5 (aka SRX645_m58) and the problem still exists.

I just tried to build using a fresh cvs update and it appears that vcl will not build for NeoOffice.

James
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:04 pm    Post subject:

[quote="jjmckenzie51"]I just tried to build using a fresh cvs update and it appears that vcl will not build for NeoOffice.

So am I supposed to guess where the problem is? I can't magically see the build errors in your terminal.

Patrick
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