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NeoOffice :: View topic - OO 2 on Mac - Won't run
OO 2 on Mac - Won't run
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    NeoOffice Forum Index -> OpenOffice.org X11 Testing
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jakeOSx

Thanks. I downloaded the file OOo_2.0.0rc3_051016_MacosxPPC_install.dmg
which when opened has a file OpenOffice.org 2.0 whose icon is a blue square with a flock of birds flying. It is 363,123,820 byters long. There is no other file or folder. I double-click on that and it launches. Appearing in the About is: "This is an executable script saved as an application. You can view or edit this script by choosing Edit Script from the Edit Menu." File has "Use Startup Screen" (greyed out). Edit has Undo, Cut, Copy etc. (greyed) and "Edit Script" . Choosing "Edit Script" results in a box saying "Unable to read the dictionary of the application or extension because it is not scriptable."

Every time I choose a main menu item, OpenOffice.org 2.0 quits.

As you said earlier, perhaps X11 is not installed or if it is, its not initiatalised. I suspect that it is not installed because I can't find it! I have now noticed:

http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=2

which seems to offer a download of X11 but its links seem to offer only OpenOffice itself and various other files such as OpenOffice.org X11 1.0.3 GM.
Description: Gold Master installer for OpenOffice.org 1.0.3 Mac OS X (X11). It is not made clear whether this is X11 itself or yet another version of OpenOffice. Nowhere can I find a download which simply says "download X11 here", and if it did, I suspect that there are many versions/builds and only the correct version will work with the version of OpenOffice that I have downloaded. This is an example of the complexity that I have referred to.

It would be really helpful if you or someone would simply give me the address of a page which clearly offers a download of X11 comparible with my OpenOffice.org 2.0 and which works on OS 10.3.4
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to mention that I launched OpenOffice.org 2.0 from a copy on my HD, (and also directly from the .img). No difference.
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jakeOSX
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Joined: Aug 12, 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the X11 installation files are on the third Panther disk (they used to be downloadable on apple.com, but that was jaguar beta's only...)

also, there is XDarwin, which is X11 as well. Though I have not tried XDarwin with the new .app file. (unfortunatly I suspect that some voodoo will be necassary to NOT use Apple's X11, but XDarwin instead.)

those linkes are about the 1.0.3 version of OO.o. That was an installer, not a .app type file. It also came with XDarwin, because in those days, Apple's X11 didn't exist.

So pop out those panther disks and install X11. If you can't (for whatever reason) and need to use XDarwin, let me know, and I'll re-install it and work with you to get it working.
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sardisson
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jakeOSX wrote:
the X11 installation files are on the third Panther disk (they used to be downloadable on apple.com, but that was jaguar beta's only...)


<sigh> X11 for 10.3 is still available for download from Apple.com. X11 for 10.4 can only be installed off of the 10.4 DVD.

See this item in the wiki.

If you want a package that just works out-of-the-box, not extra-item installations needed, no font conversions, etc., you want NeoOffice/J instead. (Unless you have to have some new feature of OOo 2.0; then you're out of luck.)

Smokey

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Guest






PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jakeOSX
Some progress but not there yet! The dealer who sold me my G5 in Sept. 04 installed OS 10.3.4 and gave me discs 1 & 2 but must have forgotten to give me no.3. Howver, following an inspiration, I searched my HD for X11 and there it was. After installation (see below) I found two files, each called "X11SDK.pkg". GetInfo states:

One was created and modified 3 Nov. 2005, 250,247 Bytes. Version = X11 SDK For Mac OS. Open with Installer (Default). It is in HD:Library:Receipts: Show Package Contents reveals a folder "Contents" which has Archive.bom, Info.plist, Folder "Resources", version plist. The folder "Resources" has Archive.sizes, BundleVersions.plist, a folder "English.lproj" and package_version. The folder has Description.plist, IFRequirement.strings, InstallationCheck.strings, License.rtf, and VolumeCheck.strings.

The other was created 4 March 2004 and modified on 3 Nov. 2005, 5,361,356 Bytes. Version = X11 SDK for Mac OSX. Open with Installer (Default). It is in HD:Applications:Installers:Xcode Tools:Packages: Show Package Contents is as above except that the folder Contents also contains Archive.pax.gz

I installed one of the .pkg files.

I can't remember which because at the time I did not know that there were two. However, the installer went through the familiar steps in the usual window, announcing that the X11 was successfully installed. I have just tried to launch the 3 November 2005 one and got a box saying the pkg could not be opened - it is a Receipt. I then launched the other pkg file (4 March 2004) and it opened and invited me to install X11 with a "Continue button", (I stopped there) so it must have been the 4 March 2004 one that I ran (perhaps the Receipt one was not there when I began the installation).

The Finder's "Find" shows the two .pkg files but no others containing "X11" in their file names (other than a very mysterious "Pope Pius X11.psd" which is worrying!!) but perhaps the X11 installer installed invisible files only.

The OpenOffice.org 2.0 file (the application with the seagulls icon) was created and modified on 25 September 2005, 363,123,820 Bytes, Version = OpenOffice.org 2.0 It is temporarily on my Desktop. Show Package Contents reveals Info.plist, Folder "Mac OS", a Folder alias "openoffice.org, Folder "openoffice.org1.9.130", PkgInfo, Folder Resources. The folder "MacOS" has droplet.

The Folder "openoffice.org1.9.130" has Folder "Help", LICENSE, Licence.html. Folder Licenses, Folder presets, README, README.html. Folder readmes, Folder share, THIRDPARTYLICENSEREADME.html (I won't list all the folder contents.)

G5/2.0 GHz (bought Sept. 2005), 1 GB RAM, 109 GB free on my HD, OS 10.3.4 Two cats, a big garden and braized steak for dinner.

I launched OpenOffice.org 2.0 (including after a hard restart) but the result was the same as before. What a saga! Hope this info helps.

Thanks.
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jakeOSX
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

unfortunately that is the software developer's kit (SDK). but as smokey pointed out (i should have know!) you can download Apple's X11 from here:

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/x11formacosx.html

This should install it in the utlities folder inside your applications folder.
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It works! Many thanks for all the help.
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Andrew Gough
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:35 am    Post subject: Getting there but.... Reply with quote

All, thank you for your steers this far. I do want to beat this challenge so please bear with me.

My X11 problems are continuing to follw a similar thread as the other posters. Thinking that I was doing the right thing, I installed the X11 .pkg from my installation disks. It turns out that it was the X11 SDK. It appeared to be successful but there is no icon or access to X11 through Applications | Utilities. Spotlight could only find a bunch of .aif feedback jingles normally named somethingx11.aif and a couple of .html documents concerning Apache.

I did follow the suggestion to drag OO.o to the Application folder for installation rather than just double clicking it from the volume. When double clicking from Applications OO.o tries much more successfully to load but ultimately goes nowhere.

In my OSX noob/non developer innocence, I assume thatt the SDK is a plug into a much bigger tool (presumably XcodeTools?) and OO.o is bombing out because X11 is not actually running. I can certaiinly see no reference to it in Activity Monitor before or after initiating OO.o.

Fine I thought, I'll use tha package from http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/x11formacosx.html. Much more successfully, this downloads as X11User.pkg. Problem is that when run, the installer says that newer software already exists on this volume. Unfortunately, I cannot find it and nor can OO.o.

Guessing now, I assume that the SDK must be there somewhere making it appear as if X11 is installed. Does it provide a runtime environment for development testing?

Assuming thatt i am on the correct trail:
* Is there a way to get rid of the X11SDK installation?
* Alternatively, is theree a way to force X11User.pkg to over-write it?

If not, I am going to rebuild my machine. It's a mild pain but probably needs to be done because I feel thhe need to partition! This time around, I will avoid the SDK and go with the user file.
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jakeOSX
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i recently reinstalled the x11 software after having the x11SDK on my machine and things worked fine. =/

though I run panter, I am not sure how tiger works, perhaps x11 is just in the applications folder?

i'll dig around and see if i can find anything...

-j
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sardisson
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

X11SDK.pkg and X11User.pkg are different and independent and won't confuse the installation of the other. Your problem appears to be that you're running 10.4; that's why the download version of X11User.pkg won't install (it only works with 10.3).

The X11 app should be in your /Applications/Utilities folder; if not, the X11User.pkg that installs it should be in the Optional Packages folder of your 10.4 DVD. That's the one you want. See this wiki article.

Smokey

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Guest






PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:12 am    Post subject: Installing X11 Reply with quote

Being new to the whole Mac OS X thing, I have found it difficult to even find the install X11 option on my install disks, It may seem obvious to Mac users but my 21 years of computer experience didn't help me and the info on the web was simply install X11, not how this should be done. So this might seem a bit over the top but..... assuming you are using Tiger, on disk one of the install disks find Optional Installs, you might have to scroll down a bit because when I mounted the disk it was nearly at the bottom, switch to the list view and you will see it, open that and it's in Applications. After that Open Office worked no problems.
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Andrew Gough
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:42 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Guys & Gals, I feel a sense of satisfaction because OO.o is working but like a bit of a tit because, really, it actually was simple(ish). I have just been my own BOFH.

My bottom line error was not RTFM. I should have noticed that Apple's posted X11 package was for 10.3 (serious idiot feeling), I should never have used the X11 SDK, I should have scrolled around the installation disks better etc. I am incredibly grateful to jakeOSX, sardisson and Mr Anonymous who set me on the right track.

Recognising some of the previous comments, anything is easy with hindsight or when you know the answer in advance through experience. Perhaps that hasn't helped? It seems so obvious that when someone like me does something dim-witted it is hard to understand why it isn't working.

It is also true that this is the most complex installation that I have encountered in recent times. I know Macs are less numerous than PCs but they are sold on simplicity and when an app is considerably harder to install on a Mac than a PC it will never achieve widespread adoption because only the determined will persevere to make it work. I have just had another look at the information given on the OO.o site as a new user tracks through to the v2.0 download and I still don't think that it says much; certainly the X11 info is not shown as being fundamental or well explained (though it is definitely obvious to those in the know). In addition the .pdf is written for the technically literate and addresses 10.3. The fact is that the installation could be better integrated and the documentation would benefit from being broken out per version and posted on the download page.

If it would help, I would happily write an installation sheet for other Tiger users (my only experience). If writing up some instructions would help, who can I pass them to for posting?

Is there a way to get Apple to either release the X11 Tiger package for bundling with OO.o or have them post it to their X11 page?[/list]

________________________________________________

BTW I just use OO.o to check my spelling and my first piece of feedback.... It should allow ⌘ shortcut commands as well as the Microsoft conventions. I am just getting used the the Apple conventions and suddenly going back has really thrown me.

This could well be a noob comment and maybe I need to flick a switch or map the keyboard in this app?
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sardisson
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

Andrew Gough wrote:
It is also true that this is the most complex installation that I have encountered in recent times. I know Macs are less numerous than PCs but they are sold on simplicity and when an app is considerably harder to install on a Mac than a PC it will never achieve widespread adoption because only the determined will persevere to make it work.

That's why many people prefer NeoOffice/J instead, if they haven't given up on the software completely because of the aggravations of installing OOo.

Andrew Gough wrote:
BTW I just use OO.o to check my spelling and my first piece of feedback.... It should allow ⌘ shortcut commands as well as the Microsoft conventions. I am just getting used the the Apple conventions and suddenly going back has really thrown me.

This could well be a noob comment and maybe I need to flick a switch or map the keyboard in this app?

You need to uncheck the "Enable key equivalents under X11" in the Input tab of the X11.app prefs (at least that's the pref name and state in 10.3). I'm sure this used to be documented (for the 1.1.2 release)....

Smokey

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Guest






PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Thank you Reply with quote

sardisson wrote:
Andrew Gough wrote:
BTW I just use OO.o to check my spelling and my first piece of feedback.... It should allow ? shortcut commands as well as the Microsoft conventions. I am just getting used the the Apple conventions and suddenly going back has really thrown me.

This could well be a noob comment and maybe I need to flick a switch or map the keyboard in this app?

You need to uncheck the "Enable key equivalents under X11" in the Input tab of the X11.app prefs (at least that's the pref name and state in 10.3). I'm sure this used to be documented (for the 1.1.2 release)....

Smokey


Good man Sir. Problem solved.
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JKT
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to re-iterate what others have been trying to point out... we all know that the OpenOffice.org for X11 is not/has not been a very good Mac experience (though big improvements have been made to this over the years, especially once Apple developed their own X11 environment for OS X... you should have been there when you had to install your own X11 environment and window manager by hand before you could even think about trying to use OpenOffice.org... <oooh, misty eyed sensation> Wink ). This is why the NeoOffice project was started - to make OpenOffice.org a native Mac application that uses Mac conventions for installation and for operation. Currently, NeoOffice/J represents the fruits of that effort and, while it has made great strides to be that native application, it isn't all the way there yet. However, this is what would have happened if you had chosen NeoOffice/J:

1. Download and mount .dmg
2. Run .pkg installer - follow simple instructions.
3. Find NeoOffice/J in your Applications folder and launch.
4. Use NeoOffice/J.
(5. Apply any patches using the same 1 to 4).

Simple, huh? About the only major thing that is really stopping NeoOffice/J from being a proper Mac OS app at the moment are the open/save dialogues and the "grey" UI which still belie the Win/Lin/Sol background of the app. There are other minor aspects that make it less than Mac like (e.g. some keyboard shortcuts for text editing) but these can be lived with once learnt.

In other words, if you want a more Mac-like approach to using OpenOffice.org on OS X then use NeoOffice/J and not OpenOffice.org for X11. OpenOffice.org for X11 is for the more technically savvy, IMNSHO. However, so long as you are aware of the limitations and quirks, you can get along with it even if you aren't technically savvy.

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