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NeoOffice :: View topic - Creatures of the ID
Creatures of the ID
 
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:43 am    Post subject: Creatures of the ID

Yes, well - just for the record, though my 'pen-name' is yoxi (for reasons I won't go into), my name for the last 9 years has been Padmavyuha, because I was ordained as a Buddhist back then. However: my legal name has been Dharmachari Padmavyuha, because I wanted to make it a legal change, but was under the mistaken impression at the time that it was a legal requirement to have 2 names (Dharmachari is just a Buddhist title). Now I've bitten the bullet and changed my name legally to Padmavyuha, and the fun has begun - I have to let all these official bodies know about my name change, and of course everyone's computer systems refuse to accept only one name. So my passport will call me Padmavyuha XXXXX. And that's only the first hurdle - I had to redo my Deed of Change of Name because it read 'as my full name and my family name' and the passort office took this to mean that I wanted Padmavyuha as my surname (right - a surname and no first name?)

Anyway, this has just made me wonder how European/American official bodies deal with all the people who come from countries where they don't have this particular Firstname/Surname convention that we have here? I know in the US it's much more common to have a middle name too, and US websites ask for that where UK ones don't. So I'm curious whether anyone else has had difficulties with a 'non-standard' naming convention where they live?

I've had to write a very unambiguous covering letter to make it clear that Padmavyuha is not my surname, it's just my name, and I want it to appear in the Firstname box if there are boxes. And as far as my bank's concerned it's impossible to change it to Padmavyuha at all, so I either have to stay as Dharmachari Padmavyuha or be called Padmavyuha Padmavyuha.

I'm not sure why this has turned out to be so important to me - it's probably an adolescent kicking out against the constraints of convention as much as anything else, sigh...

- Padmavyuha (yoxi comes out of the closet...)
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly


Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Creatures of the ID

yoxi wrote:
Yes, well - just for the record, though my 'pen-name' is yoxi (for reasons I won't go into), my name for the last 9 years has been Padmavyuha, because I was ordained as a Buddhist back then.


I shortened the discussion, not to remove any valuable material.

It would be interesting to see what US INS does if/when you attempt to enter our country. I don't think our systems are setup to handle no last name. However, I do know that the system used to handle clearances, is. I just did an update about a month ago.

James
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:42 pm    Post subject:

Man, it's bad enough for me trying to change addresses with the various US government and state agencies (actually...did I forget my selective service card?). There are so many different forms to fill out, it's a rat's nest of bureaucracy. I can't imagine how much of a tangle it must be to do a full name change. I have no clue why they'd make it such a hassle.

I don't see why the single name should be a problem, myself. After all, doesn't Madonna just use Madonna?

ed
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:47 pm    Post subject:

Padmavyuha,

People who do computer systems can make some very ... strange assumptions. I guess if you a not a wealthy "Star", the government system does not like dealing with exceptions.

I remember many years ago when the military and some schools in United States could not handle names without a middle initial. So it had to be filled with NMI - No Middle Initial?!? Laughing

Your easiest bet might be to go with Padmavyuha Padmavyuha.
I'm sure that is not a completely satisfying choice. As we say over here: "You can't fight Cityhall / government". Confused

I have a quirk with how people write my first name, Philip, Not Phillip (get the "L" out! ), not Phil. strange, but it's my name.

Philip ( you can call me Philip!?! Wink )
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:11 am    Post subject:

OPENSTEP wrote:
Man, it's bad enough for me trying to change addresses with the various US government and state agencies (actually...did I forget my selective service card?).

As long as you're 26, you don't have to keep telling Selective Service (the "draft" for those of you abroad) where you are. At least that's what my card says. Wink

OPENSTEP wrote:
There are so many different forms to fill out, it's a rat's nest of bureaucracy. I can't imagine how much of a tangle it must be to do a full name change. I have no clue why they'd make it such a hassle.

To keep people from doing it? Which is rather odd when you think about it, since in this country I believe most women take their husband's name when getting married...and then take their own name back when getting divorced...and then their new husband's name when getting remarried...and so on.

I actually didn't find the government part very difficult; Social Security + Passport + Drivers License combined were far easier than some of the non-goverment tasks (like my school ID, which took two weeks and dozens of visits to different offices to get the change to go through). And then there's the DC government; even today, my tax refund checks and 1099-something form (the one that says, mhm, we gave him a refund last year) still come with my old name.

I can't completely relate to yoxi's "predicament" (given the relative simplicity of adding Smokey to my legal name), but I do know that the quest to have one's official name be the name one has used and identifies with is a powerful and sometimes difficult thing, yet ultimately quite fulfilling and stabilizing once accomplished. Best wishes in all your battles along the way!

Smokey (who has been Smokey all his life, but only to the government since early this decade)

_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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jjmckenzie51
The Anomaly


Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 1055
Location: Southeastern Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject:

sardisson wrote:
OPENSTEP wrote:
Man, it's bad enough for me trying to change addresses with the various US government and state agencies (actually...did I forget my selective service card?).

As long as you're 26, you don't have to keep telling Selective Service (the "draft" for those of you abroad) where you are. At least that's what my card says. Wink


I missed out on entering the Selective Service by about two months. Nice, but it's fun when you deal with the government and have to fill out application forms, most of which are automated. They should be able to figure out from my birthdate that I am not required to enroll.

Oh, I have my bit of fun when they ask for a Birth Certificate. I don't have one. I was born abroad of American parents, so I had a State Department record form (State form 121). I hand it to them and they ask what is this? I reply, the only legal American documentation of my birth. If they really get upset, I then hand over my passport. Then if they still insist on a Birth Certificate, I get out my notarized copy of my French Birth Certificate. At this point, they usually sigh and copy my Record of Birth Abroad... (Most of them need help reading my Birth Certificate.)

And I know the struggles of changing your name. The system is equipped to help women, but not men. I knew a young modern man that actually hated his real name, especially the last one. So, when he got married, he took his WIFE's last name. It was a lot of 'fun' and it started at the MVD (Moter Vehicle Department) and went on from there. Social Security was the easiest.

James
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Paraplegic_Racehorse
Pure-blooded Human


Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 36
Location: Seward, Alaska, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:51 pm    Post subject:

Padmavyuha,

I feel your pain. I have given, middle and surnames. Growing up, I had always used the given-MI-surname tradition. Mostly, I used my given name then because that is what my family has called me from birth. (still trying to break them of that habit - a big part of why I don't talk them as much as they would like)

When I moved to Alaska, I chose to use my middle name. No paperwork involved, but every time I open a new account of any sort or have to fill out paperwork or electronic forms, there is not ability to compensate for people like myself. So, where B. Charles Reynolds should appear, I wind up seeing Charles B. Reynolds or often just B. Reynolds.

One thing I do like about it, though, is I can always tell junk mail or telemarketers apart when the opening is just the initial "B". Wink

_________________
Faster than a speeding slug!
I'm Paraplegic Racehorse.
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject:

Meanwhile, the story continueth...

The chap from the passport office called 3 weeks ago to say that they couldn't use Padmavyuha as a first name (and no surname), because the wording of my Deed of Name Change implied that Padmavyuha would be my family name as well as my full name. So... I did a new deed - and I wrote a letter to them clearly stating that I wanted Padmavyuha as my first name.

He had also told me that his computer wouldn't even let him put in Padmavyuha XXXX (as other one-named friends of mine have in their British passports). No news for 3 weeks... I called him again, he said their Best Practice dept. was still looking into it; but meanwhile he's been moved to a new department, and for the hell of it he tried again entering Padmavyuha XXXX - and it worked. Bizarre. So that's what my passport will read.

Now, I'm a bit on the warpath, though. It seems to me that if the country I'm in doesn't legally require me to have 2 names, then businesses or organisations whose software doesn't allow me any alternative to 2 names is committing some kind of fundamental infringement - or their IT depts are lazy, at the very least. We're living in a multicultural country now, it's time that these systems were updated to cope with people's actual names, rather than shoehorning all the various world name convention variations into the first/last pigeonhole.

I don't suppose I'll get very far with this, but it'll make for some interesting postal exchanges, and I might get a magazine article out of it, eh? I wish sometimes that I wasn't so bloody-minded, but spring is in my veins...

- Padmavyuha (abstaining from an xs of x's)
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Samwise
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: Montpellier, France

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Oh, I have my bit of fun when they ask for a Birth Certificate. I don't have one. I was born abroad of American parents, so I had a State Department record form (State form 121). I hand it to them and they ask what is this? I reply, the only legal American documentation of my birth. If they really get upset, I then hand over my passport. Then if they still insist on a Birth Certificate, I get out my notarized copy of my French Birth Certificate. At this point, they usually sigh and copy my Record of Birth Abroad... (Most of them need help reading my Birth Certificate.)


So you're an American but were born in France, right ? I suppose you have to give them your Birth Certificate when you need to renew your passport if I am not msitaken (being relatively young myself, I haven't dealt with paperwork and bureaucarcy yet - but from now on I will have to). Apart from that, when do they ask for for it ? I ask this because I have an American father but was born in Monte-Carlo and wonder whether I have such a thing as an American Birth Certificate ...
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:24 am    Post subject:

dude, you were born in a car?

i guess it depends on what state tags the monty had...

-j, who couldn't resist
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject:

Samwise wrote:
So you're an American but were born in France, right ? I suppose you have to give them your Birth Certificate when you need to renew your passport if I am not msitaken (being relatively young myself, I haven't dealt with paperwork and bureaucarcy yet - but from now on I will have to). Apart from that, when do they ask for for it ? I ask this because I have an American father but was born in Monte-Carlo and wonder whether I have such a thing as an American Birth Certificate ...


I am definitely not an expert on this subject, but my understanding is that only American hospitals or local governments issue birth certificates (i.e. they are usually handled by county governments). So, if you are born outside of the U.S. and at least one of your parents is an American citizen, your parents would hopefully have filed registration of your birth with the nearest American embassy. If that wasn't done, then you should probably consult an immigration lawyer as I am sure that there is much paperwork involved doing such a delayed registration. Sad

Patrick
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Samwise
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: Montpellier, France

PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject:

I see. Well, I have an American passport, so I believe that some kind of registration must have already taken place. I was just wondering when I should expect to be required to provide a Birth Certificate ...

jake, http://www.monte-carlo.mc/
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:29 am    Post subject:

Got my new passport, which calls me Padmavyuha XXXX - next stop, driver's license...

- padmavyuha
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:56 am    Post subject:

Congratulations! I'm glad that at least you're finding some way to navigate through the Kafkaesque bureaucracy and have at least found someone else that can give you a hint or two to help along the way!

ed
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amaloney
Captain


Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:02 am    Post subject:

Padmavyuha

Keep up the good fight.

My name on my birth certificate (Ontario, Canada) is Alvin Hugh Andrew Maloney. I am a dual citizen (Canada, USofA) and have great fun here in USofA with driver's licence, forms demanding a single middle initial, etc.

BTW, I hate the name Alvin (the chipmunk song did it for me) and prefer to be called Al. Can I get this across to the various Guardians of Names or Forms Police - NO!

My signature on documents is simply legibly written «Maloney». When the Signature Police demand that I write an initial or firstName, I refuse to do it and ask them to read a random sample of signatures on the documents they have already accepted. Verrrrrry few of them ar readable.

Thirty years ago when I was practising gynecology in Alberta, Canada, I had a patient who legally changed her two names to a single name - Andrea. Then she encountered the government-run healthcare plan which required her to have two names. She wrote several letters, having received several cards with various combinations of her old names and her new one. Finally she wrote to the Minister of Health and pointed out that her name was Andrea, just Andrea. Her new card came with the subscriber name «Just Andrea». As I recall, she gave up at this point.

Al Maloney
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