Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: NeoOffice Is not OpenOffice.org
Anonymous wrote:
So the next question is, when can I pay for my pre-release of Neo 2.0?
Wire transfer me $1,000,000 and then...
Just kidding. The Neo 2.0 Alpha code appears nearly done. Sound doesn't work but I probably won't hold back release for that as I no that plenty of bugs will probably be found. Other than that, I need to run the OOo QA test tool (the tool crashes with my Neo code so I need to sort that out) and then reimplement the automatic patch checking.
Other than the Neo code, I got a restricted download system working with PayPal's sandbox site this morning. I stilll need to replace all of the default messages and reorganize my download pages, but that is only HTML editing so that should only require a few days of work. I found a little PHP-based web application from a very small company in Australia that sells their restricted download app for only US$30. I was estatic because paying $30 for something that works well saved me a good week of programming and problem more than that of debugging. For those who are interested, I will be using the LockDowner by IPN Solutions. Their code pretty much handles every little thing that I was worried about having to implement myself.
So, the big question that I need an answer to is whether the webhosting company that hosts planamesa.com can handle the load of Neo binaries. Currently, I use online.net to host planamesa.org. They have the capacity to handle my 4 terabytes of Neo load (i.e. 10% of all Neo downloads) for a very low price but, their site is pretty much useless for running a web application even as simple as LockDowner. So, I need to put LockDowner and the binaries for early access users on planamesa.com. I've asked them if they can provide support for 1 terabyte per month. Cross your fingers and hope that they can.
OK, after all that background, if planamesa.com can support the load, I am hoping to have paid early access downloads available by the end of this month.
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: Re: NeoOffice Is not OpenOffice.org
pluby wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
So the next question is, when can I pay for my pre-release of Neo 2.0?
Wire transfer me $1,000,000 and then...
I found a little PHP-based web application from a very small company in Australia that sells their restricted download app for only US$30. I was estatic because paying $30 for something that works well saved me a good week of programming and problem more than that of debugging. For those who are interested, I will be using the LockDowner by IPN Solutions. Their code pretty much handles every little thing that I was worried about having to implement myself.
Patrick
You little beauty! Go, Aussie, go! We know we have some people here in Aussieland doing great things in IT: nice to have proof.
Seriously, though, Patrick, you must be a genius! I love the thought that NeoOffice 2 is so close !
Congratulations, and thanks to all the others who have been testing and feeding input.
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:49 am Post subject:
I go offline for a few days and all ... heck breaks lose.
I laughed, I cried, I got ANGRY , (I got hungry), I think it's time for a nap.
I look forward to making a (another) contribution to gain early access to NeoOffice 2.x.
I'm sorry that I don't have the funds to better support Patrick (and this fora) better.
It's on my list to provide better support in the future. Also on my list is folks to send nasty lumps of ... coal.
Philip (We are a community supporting OOo on the Mac - Damn IT! )
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:59 am Post subject: Re: Money or Community Service?
ben wrote:
I've read through this thread and am pleased that my comment generated more discussion on the matter. If people are interested, I have a few more comments after reading the follow-ups:
NeoOffice Extras
I quite liked the idea of an optional pay-for download that had additional languages, clip art, fonts etc. You'd still get the core program for free, but interested users could get a few extra features. I know I'd be interested in a version that included the LaTeX integration that I know can be set up with ooolatex. It's been on my list of things to look into for a while now. If a replacement icon set is ever finished, this might also be a nice optional extra. I know I would like to contribute, but really have little interest in digging into OOo's code. Perhaps this is something that the rest of the NeoOffice community could work on without directly involving Patrick. We could put together the addons, and hand the finished product back to him for sale...
Hi Ben
I haven't been following this thread, so excuse the late reply. It's a bit off the main topic, so this may need to be moved to another thread. However, having been involved in both the icon and clipart package projects, let me make a few points:
1. I never saw these things as packages that people paid for . I certainly intended to make nothing from my work on them. I am retired, I have received a lot from the community in my life & career, and this is one of two volunteer projects I am involved in, where I can put back into the community? Do others also see their activity on this forum as community service? I think you should. Like other community service projects, there are part-time staff, if you are lucky there are full-time staff, and there is always the essential army of volunteers.
2. You can be involved in these projects without getting your "hands dirty" with OpenOffice.org code I have been. Believe me, I am a code dunce. That didn't prevent me putting together a few sets of icons [by the way, the set of OO_o icons on this page are functionally "finished", as much as is necessary]. But NeoOffice 2 will probably require us to go back and rename dozens or even hundreds of icons, so extra hands could be useful. You'll find you can contribute a lot without coding skills, if you offer your services. I started collecting icons and renaming them, and it just developed from there.
I started, but did not finish, editing the original graphic from the neooffice.org page (dinner got in the way). I'll work on that tonight.
The current page now uses regular text instead of the neotop.jpg image. In general, I don't use images that contain only text as they are 1) hard to edit and 2) they are much larger in size. Eliminating the text graphics knocks off 11K per download. Doesn't sound like much, but assuming www.neooffice.org gets hit about 200,000 times per month as the NeoOffice download page does, that adds up to a lot of bits being pushed through Ed's limited bandwidth.
Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: donations?
Quote:
From: "eric.bachard" <eric.bachard@free.fr>
To: dev@porting.openoffice.org
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:28:08 +0200
Subject: [Mac OS X] Mac Intel donation
Hi,
I'm glad to announce a new Apple's donation of two Imacs Intel 17".
Tino and Stephan, who received these machine friday, told me they are
very fast. Sure, this will help us a lot for native port.
Many many thank's to Apple, mainly Michel Sutter, for supporting us.
Regards,
Eric Bachard
Looks like Eric isn't doing too bad in his resources department after all.
It sounds like a good thing, as it will bring Intel support closer for us as well.
But maybe someone here has the phone of this mr. Sutter. If he's donating Macs anyway, I'm sure Pat, Ed and James can deal with one .
best wishes,
Oscar
P.S. Pat and Jake, I am very pleased you took such quick action on the slogan that was on NeoOffice.org. Let us hope all feathers keep smooth for a while now. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
From: "eric.bachard" <eric.bachard@free.fr>
To: dev@porting.openoffice.org
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:28:08 +0200
Subject: [Mac OS X] Mac Intel donation
Hi,
I'm glad to announce a new Apple's donation of two Imacs Intel 17".
Tino and Stephan, who received these machine friday, told me they are very fast. Sure, this will help us a lot for native port.
Many many thank's to Apple, mainly Michel Sutter, for supporting us.
Regards,
Eric Bachard
Looks like Eric isn't doing too bad in his resources department after all.
It sounds like a good thing, as it will bring Intel support closer for us as well.
But maybe someone here has the phone of this mr. Sutter. If he's donating Macs anyway, I'm sure Pat, Ed and James can deal with one .
best wishes,
Oscar
Does anyone know who we can call / write at Apple about Developer Support? I know it's unlikely to happen but I would be willing to Call and/or email someone "Singing the virtues of the NeoOffice effort on the Mac".
If nothing else it would make sure that Apple knows that NeoOffice matters to a (small ? / Large ) group of Mac users. I'm overlooking any issues that NeoOffice "may" compete with Apple's iWorks (not for me! ).
I will not be upgrade to an Intel Mac until NeoOffice is available. Sometime this year would be ... nice?
I tried to look through the Developer Relations area for Mac and just got lost. Who would be Mr. Sutter's counterpart for the US??
Can anyone help??
Philip ( Loves using the BEST Office Suite on the Mac - NeoOffice! )
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: Apple
I think Apple is well aware of the benefit of Neo...Take a look at the bid by apple to State of Maine Division of Purchases and the Maine Department of Education. (Notice Applications Installed)
An overview of the components of the bid as proposed by Apple Computer:
• Professional Development: Summer 2006 training for teachers, principals and tech coordinators and ongoing professional development.
• Per Seat Cost: $289
• Device Description: Apple iBook 12.1â€, 1.33 Ghz G4, 1GB RAM, 40 GB, 802.11b/g, 10/100 ethernet, Bluetooth 2.0 EDR, slot-load CDRW-DVD ROM (24x CD-R, 16x CDRW, 8x DVD-ROM, 24x CD-ROM), 4.9 lbs
• Applications: Pages, Appleworks, Mail, Dictionary & Thesaurus, Grapher, Keynote, iWeb, iMovie HD, iPhoto, iDVD, GarageBand, iTunes, Safari, iChatAV, iCal, Preview (http://www.apple.com/software/), NoteTaker (http://www.aquaminds.com), NeoOffice (http://www.neooffice.org/), Pasco DataStudio (http://www.pasco.com/datastudio/), GRASS GIS (http://grass.itc.it/), GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/), World Book Encyclopedia (http://mackiev.com/world_book.html), Journler (http://journler.phildow.net/), Anti-virus software
• Communication: Mac OS X Server hosted POP accounts for all users, private messaging accounts inside StudyWiz hosted environment for all users
• Collaboration: Hosted StudyWiz environment (http://www.studywiz.com/)
• Software Updating: Apple Remote Desktop, 2 admin licenses per school
• Software Restore: MLTI Firewire Restore method. 1 drive per 30 student devices deployed.
• Operating System: Mac OS 10.4.x, Apple Maintenance Program, includes all Operating System revisions for the term of the contract.
• Wireless Network: Apple will expand network coverage as necessary to meet requirements. Will upgrade all switches and access points (Airport Extreme, 802.11g). If necessary, Apple will use PoE.
• Support: Extended warranty coverage for the term of the contract. Spare devices allocated to each school. Apple will provide 1-800 Help Desk services.
• Backups: Users have off-site storage using backup solution software, 100MB per student, 500 MB per teacher
Joined: Feb 12, 2005 Posts: 607 Location: Australia
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:37 pm Post subject: Just around the corner..
This is what we can look forward to in Neo2 ["automatic" icons in OpenOffice.org 2]
Can't wait! But can we make sure we don't have that awful Windows 3.1 dark grey frame? I really like the soft light framing of NeoOffice 1.2
That may seem off the topic, as this topic has developed, but I believe that the success or failure of NeoOffice depends on its acceptance as a mainstream product, as is evidenced by its usage in the teacher training program above. And its increased acceptance is linked to how it looks, as well as ease of use, both of which are directly addressed in the move to 2.0 In fact, the difference between 1.2 and 2.0 is at least as large a jump as those version numbers suggest - almost like going from OS 9 to OS X.
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:19 am Post subject:
While this sounds out there and may be a bit OT...
I actually have come to find the most successful approach to working on either Neo or OOo on OS X is precisely to *not* be a mainstream product. Why?
Immediately it invites comparison to both MS and Apple.
Think of it...what has given OOo/StarOffice its success, historically? OS/2 was a big factor (Lotus was the only other alternative). For Unix boxen, it was the only alternative. Windows was a shoe-in for compatibility.
Mac has always gotten second-shift treatment from Star, Sun, and it's deap-seated in a product that's over a decade old. There's no easy way to do one-upmanship with such a platform agnostic approach when set up against Mac-specific approaches taken by Mac BU and Apple.
I think trying to get accepted by the Mac mainstream is the wrong approach.
Being recognized for both what we can do as well as our limitations, both Neo and OOo, is a different story.
When faced with the choice, there are folks who will be able to pay for a real full-on Mac experience, and there are folks who are satisfied to be able to have the ability to open that presentation their economics professor sent them as an attachment. The latter are not the Mac faithful mainstream and never will be.
Yes, there are people who appreciate appearance much more than functionality, who appreciate gadegetry over bare bones utility. They are the kind of people who buy Z8s when the Corvette has a better price/performance ratio. They are the kind of people who buy Macs (not all, but a very non-trival percentage). I'm proud to say I'm one of them (lifts G4 Cube up in a gesture of power).
OT, but something to chew on. Another reason why making real money off of Neo/OOo on the Mac is a losing proposition.
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, (I got hungry), I think it's time for a nap. 
I have been. Believe me, I am a code dunce. That didn't prevent me putting together a few sets of icons [by the way, the set of OO_o icons on 
Does anyone know who we can call / write at Apple about Developer Support? I know it's unlikely to happen but I would be willing to Call and/or email someone "Singing the virtues of the NeoOffice effort on the Mac".