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NeoOffice :: View topic - Wiki Visibility (split from some linux post)
Wiki Visibility (split from some linux post)
 
   NeoOffice Forum Index -> NeoWiki and Website Development
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:36 am    Post subject:

LemonAid wrote:
OK, RTFW (that ought to confuse some ... more folks! Wink )

Ed,

How to: "improve the visibility or availability of the wiki for users"?

1. The first thought that comes to my mind - is to Beat them over the head with it? (RTFW Shocked ) No? drat - it made me feel ... better! Rolling Eyes

2. expanded box (and bigger font size) on the left side that has just the Wiki labeled something like " Vast Source of NeoOffice knowledge"? Really YELL it out!

3. Some kind of "compressed" table of contents on the Wiki. NOT the criptic Special pages Special pages link.
It took me several weeks to figure what that meant. And then it's ... very limited.
3.1 Most web sites have some kind of "Site Map" links so you can get the lay of the land - with a clearly labeled link.
3.2 It does not have to be too time / labor intensive.
Something like Neo/OOo history, Neo/OOo Modules (Write, Calc, ...), Installation, Problems, Fonts, etc.
THAT is what I look for when I go to a new Wiki/website. Smokey can't answer everyone's questions with a Wiki link - all by himself ('tho it seems that he does an Outstanding job of it! Wink ).

4. where did I put this ... statement Question

5. Enhance Wiki Random Page link to respect the Users default language? Don't know if that is possible. French / German Random pages don't help me, as much Confused

Philip ( RTFW - now what was the question?!? Rolling Eyes )


THEME SONG

if the wiki had a theme song, there would be no concern.

ok, now onto the serious parts.

3. there is a 'site map' though admittedly it is tucked away, i'll ad a link to the front page.

4. did ninja's steal it?

5. this is easy and hard at the same time. really, and what i was trying at first to do, the languages should be their own wiki (remember neowikifr anyone?) and interconnected.

i have figured out how to do sim-links, and set up a test bed of mulitple wiki's running off one set of files. then, simply set up each wiki as a language and connect them. poof! so yeah.

one of these days.

things that will REALLY help are as follows:

when the answer is in the wiki, quote it and link it. someone finds an answer there once, they will be inclined to look again.

when the answer is not in the wiki, we should get it there. when the answer is there, but only in english/french/german, we should make sure that it gets translated to all three langauges.

you sig file. =) i know i should do this, but everyone can put something
in their sigs.

oh, and graphitti passing ninjas.
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:51 pm    Post subject:

Many Thanks jakeOSX,

I know some of these items are long -term requests.

2. something for Ed/Patrick to update on the Info and Forum pages. In Big BOLD print??

3. Having the Site Map on the front page would be a nice addition! Tanks

4.4. sneaky ... ninja's?

5. the language would be "a nice to have", but not required.

TO DOs:
- Links user questions to the Wiki answers - Check
- Post answers to the Wiki if they are not there - roger ( I think of "partial" answers much faster than I post/update the Wiki - I know that I should do more Wink )
- Wiki language translations (Gee - SeaMonkey mis-translates fine for me) - something to ... do - got it

- Sig files - Not sure what this is refering to?? Embarassed

- oh, and graphitti passing ninjas. - Ducking!!! Shocked

Philip ( Looking for his Sig File? Wink )
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject:

LemonAid wrote:
3. Some kind of "compressed" table of contents on the Wiki. NOT the criptic Special pages

What's wrong with the links in the Neo box? Everything interesting (well, not history, or NeoLight stuff) is accessible from one of those links, and the the more important ones are accessible from the Support link on the line just above that, as well.

We've really compressed the content as much as we can....

Smokey

_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject:

jakeOSX wrote:
THEME SONG

if the wiki had a theme song, there would be no concern.

Aheh ahem...:

Doum (ts) doumdoum (ts) doumdoum (ts) doumdoum (ts)
Wikki don't lose that number, you don't wanna call nobody else...

(I thankyew...)
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:22 pm    Post subject:

sardisson wrote:
LemonAid wrote:
3. Some kind of "compressed" table of contents on the Wiki. NOT the criptic Special pages

What's wrong with the links in the Neo box? Everything interesting (well, not history, or NeoLight stuff) is accessible from one of those links, and the the more important ones are accessible from the Support link on the line just above that, as well.

We've really compressed the content as much as we can....

Smokey
I'm must be kind ... slow. :opps: The boxes on the left of the Wiki pages are ... sparce/bleak/barren/devoid/...
At least we should have a Site Map (like other web sites - or so I'm thinking??) OR a New Users FAQ, Or somthing?? -- Please (for those of us with some-timers!! )
Code:
Navigation

    * Main Page
    * Community portal
    * Current events
    * Recent changes
    * Random page
    * Help
    * Donations

Search __________

Toolbox

    * What links here
    * Related changes
    * Upload file
    * Special pages
    * Printable version

Where does that help the really New user (and folks like ... me Rolling Eyes ) find items: "Something like Neo/OOo history, Neo/OOo Modules (Write, Calc, ...), Installation, Problems, Fonts, etc. "

Isn't that what a FAQ/summary link would be best for.
Hint - Think new users "Don't know what to ask/search for". It's up to us/Wiki to lead them.
<rant> sorry - spending several days supporting "really" New users at work - RTFM / RTFW <rant>

Philip ( "Wikki don't lose that number, ...."! I likke it, Really LIKKE IT!! Wink )

\ Hay, it's just my opinion - YMMV.
\\ It's jsut that I do this kind of stuff all day long at work
\\\ "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!"

\\\\ running out of slashes - Opinion were asked, I replyed
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject:

PS: Can we downgrade the "Effective immediately, NeoOffice/J 1.1 has been discontinued. For more information, see this page." Notice?
-- Maybe the bottom of the page.

DOH!
Quote:
I just got the NEO BOX statement! Embarassed

I GET IT now. Exactly - clean out the old NeoOffice/J stuff from the top of the page so that the NEW user sees what's in that box - when the first see the Wiki!

Compress the headers ( place Logo and "NeoOffice" text on same lines, white space and such)

Sorry for being so .... DENSE?!?

Philip ( I am such an .................. idigt! Embarassed Crying or Very sad Embarassed )
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Yes, I'm going to replace the Neo/J bit in that box with "Aqua is Here".

The purpose of that box (or a box in that position) is for hot/important news, so it's not something we can really count on disappearing to gain space.

There's not really much we can do now to help 800x600 people; if Jake gets accept-lang detection or something like working, we can move the "NeoWiki in other languages" box to the bottom where it is on other pages, but I feel very strongly that it needs to stay at the top of the page for now for our multilingual credibility.

Smokey

_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject:

sardisson wrote:
Yes, I'm going to replace the Neo/J bit in that box with "Aqua is Here".

The purpose of that box (or a box in that position) is for hot/important news, so it's not something we can really count on disappearing to gain space.

There's not really much we can do now to help 800x600 people;

if Jake gets accept-lang detection or something like working, we can move the "NeoWiki in other languages" box to the bottom where it is on other pages, but I feel very strongly that it needs to stay at the top of the page for now for our multilingual credibility.

Smokey
Ok, I get the "Breaking News" box.
I don't know about the 800x600 statement - I have screens at much higher resolutions -
BUT I DON"T open it to my full desk top. I have other work to do/see

I'm talking the extra white space in the headers, logos, and such.

When I open the web page, the lines at the bottom of the windows is either
Code:
NeoOffice 2.0 Aqua Beta, based on OpenOffice.org 2.0.3, ....

Download   ❖   Download Latest Patch   ❖   NeoOffice Support  ....

That is not enough for a new user to see the FAQ items below (and yes - many users DON"T SCROLL ). OK, and I'm a GOOD example of an idiot - I missed this information for a long time. And even after I had read it many time - I still spaced it.

1. Compress the white space above "Main Page" and "Welcome!" headers ( eg - use 5-6 point blank lines)
Saves 1+ lines of text
2. keep multi-languag
3. Keep Breaking News box - update regularly (one line if possible)
4. Move the "NeoOffice" text/title above the text "The stable, fast, actively developed version, recommended for new user". You would still have room for another line of intro text and not use precious space above the NeoShip Logo.
4.1 Compress extra white space above/below logo
Saves almost 2+ lines of text
5. Move the " NeoOffice/J 1.1? Dialog-warning-22px-tango.png" just below "Download ❖ Download Latest Patch ❖ "
save 1 line of text

The idea is not to mess up the clean layout - but to make sure that folks (expecially new users) see enought of the whole web page that they see/understand that more inportant information lines may be below their window break. They need to see at least.
Code:
What is NeoOffice?#  - - - - NeoOffice and Aqua
Feature Comparison  - - - - - - -How to Report Problems
Rule of thumb - If users don't see it on teh first web (displayed) - they usually MISS iT.

Yes, It's silly, Yes, I'm being .... anal, Rolling Eyes and YES, New users are often confused and not sure what the heck is going on. Each one that misses this information is another question in the Fora OR a lost NeoOffice user.

I barely understood this topic the last time it when around - Now I have answered (the same!) questions many time. Sad
The best defense in offense. Make it HARD for new users to miss valuable information Make it HARD to fail.

Philip ( believes that the ... Flood (of users/questions) is Coming! Shocked )

\Credo - "Once is a problem, Twice is a pattern. I don't want to see it again the third+ time."
\At least have a write up to act as a quick reference point. Wink
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject:

I think another good thing to keep in mind is that we may want to perhaps make it more prominent in the sidebars here too. We can easily do sticky topics in the trinity support forum too and consolidate things together.

The wiki has evolved into an amazing resource and it's something I really want users to see. Kudos to Jake for setting it up and all of the amazing work people have done into adding, organizing, and updating all the content!

ed
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:11 pm    Post subject:

Believe it or not, there's not tons of excess whitespace in that page. There's not any, in fact.

I have, however, moved the header next to the logo.

Smokey

_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject:

OPENSTEP wrote:
I think another good thing to keep in mind is that we may want to perhaps make it more prominent in the sidebars here too. We can easily do sticky topics in the trinity support forum too and consolidate things together.

The wiki has evolved into an amazing resource and it's something I really want users to see. Kudos to Jake for setting it up and all of the amazing work people have done into adding, organizing, and updating all the content!
ed
+1 for both ideas - Make Wiki Links Big and P R O M I N E N T.
Hip HIP HURRAH!! For the Wiki and it's contributors. I agree that this is an amazing resource. Very Happy

Smokey wrote:
Believe it or not, there's not tons of excess whitespace in that page. There's not any, in fact.

I have, however, moved the header next to the logo.

Smokey
Looks good moving NeoOffice text to the right of the Logo. tanks

On my home Mac/SeaMonkey browser, the bottom line in the window is
Code:
NeoOffice 2.0 Aqua Beta, based on OpenOffice.org 2.0.3, was....
Sure would be "nice" to see some of the FAQ items below. It wishes were Dimes, we'd all be ... rich(er).

I have not looked at the code so I'm having to guess.

Isn't there any way to reduce the space below the Logo ( change the img height, align the text to vertical top, change Logo alignment, use < b r> vs. <p>, etc Confused ) Just guessing.

and maybe move " NeoOffice/J 1.1? Exclamation ". Either below the other FAQ items listed there, or below "More Info".
I know that this is an important announcment, but it's getting a little old. Users should be using Neo 1.2.2 in any case.

Philip (who is soory that he was ... cranky earlier - User support overload Embarassed )
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Ninja


Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject:

sardisson wrote:
There's not really much we can do now to help 800x600 people; if Jake gets accept-lang detection or something like working, we can move the "NeoWiki in other languages" box to the bottom where it is on other pages, but I feel very strongly that it needs to stay at the top of the page for now for our multilingual credibility.

Smokey


i agree. the translations are really almost the most important part of the wiki.

what if we did a main page like the wikipedia? which then directed you? this is a bit out as i'd have to do some setting up behind the scenes... but it would be possible, even with the 'search' button.
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject:

I played around a bit more and tried different Computers and Browsers.

At 100% font size the page looks GREAT!
FAQ items visible down to
Code:
NeoOffice Release Notes - - - - How to Build NeoOffice
Which is enough to clue most folks into the resources listed Cool

At 120% font size - the FAQ items get pushed of screen.

jakeOSX wrote:
i agree. the translations are really almost the most important part of the wiki.

what if we did a main page like the wikipedia? which then directed you? this is a bit out as i'd have to do some setting up behind the scenes... but it would be possible, even with the 'search' button.
I think the page looks pretty good as is. Maybe a few Bolder items and tweaks might be necessary.

New Wiki Users get to see some of the information available on the very first page. If you have a "Language" main page, that would require another click to see the resources. (don't give them a chance to click-over to some other site)
Maybe when Neo takes over the world and we have hundreds of thousands of users (approching 10,000 registered Users!! Shocked ) that would be necessary.



<Wiki to Forums idea shift>
I do think that the Wiki should have it's own box area on the left of the Forums -
"Neo WiKKi - Source of VALUABLE NeoOffice information, FAQs, and such ".
Remember to make it in the top part of the visible page.... before "Other Websites"?
You could even change a tag-line every so often to point special items in the Wiki. How's that for ... marketing? Or if you just get tired of answering the "same" question over and over (like for new releases, special notices, new problem resoultions, Feature of the ... day/week/month/century! and more and MORE and Even MORE!!!! help me - I can't s t o p Wink )

Philip ( has his glasses on, and not as ... grumby today! Wink )

\Wikki don't lose that that number, ... +10 Exclamation
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject:

Go compare Main Page and Newmainpage and see if Newmainpage is any better at your font and window sizes.

(I've only changed the NeoOffice box, not the other two)

Smokey

_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject:

Smokey,

Better - It looks like we gained another line displayed.
I like the text next to the Logo better. tnaks

1. do you need the blank like between
Code:
NeoOffice uses bits of Cocoa and Java to implement a more Mac-like user experience. 

NeoOffice 2.0 Aqua Beta, based on OpenOffice.org 2.0.3, was released on August 1st, 2006.

2. Plus, The Breaking news box says that same thing as the above line... I can see announcing the Aqua Beta - but two lines is duplication. Is there another way?
Maybe something short and sweet after the "NeoOffice" text next to logo

3. Is it necessary to have " ❖ NeoOffice/J 1.1? Exclamation " on the same line as "Download ❖ Download Latest Patch "?
It's old news (Neo 1.2, 1.22, 2.0 Alpha, 2.0 Aqua Beta, maybe soon 2.0 Aqua release...) and could be noted at the bottom of the page?
3.1 With the release of Aqua Beta, and Aqua release, - having old news like Neo 1.1 might be confusing to new users/visiters .... YMMV

In any case, these are just suggestions - The work that Smokey and JakeOSX have done, and are doing, on the Wiki is OUTSTANDING!!! Many Thanks!!!

Philip ( Wikki don't lose that URL (rhymes with Earl) Wink )
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