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NeoOffice :: View topic - it was fun while it lasted
it was fun while it lasted
 
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jakeOSX
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Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:36 pm    Post subject: it was fun while it lasted Reply with quote

so i hit 170 GB of bandwidth this month. I pay for 25GB.

While this doesn't nessacarily mean I'll not be able to mirror files anymore, it does mean I'll be on a short hiatus while I work with my host to see what my options are (other than the $60 per month they offered me)

the mirror site and the Wiki will remain up, just the actual files will be removed.

Patrick, I apologize to you specifically, I know you are very close to a Neo/J 0.8 release.

More as i know it.

-jacob
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pluby
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Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11856
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jake,

I have the same problem as you: keeping my bandwidth usage within the limits that I pay my ISP for. I understand that bandwidth costs real money and very few of us can afford to pay for anything more than a limited amount of bandwidth.

If you figure out some way to limit bandwidth usage (e.g. restricting the number of simultaneous downloads, etc.), let me know how so that I can prevent my ISP from trying to up my fees. My ISP has not yet complained about my surges in bandwidth, but I have a feeling that my luck will run out someday.

Patrick
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schlesi
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Joined: Jun 07, 2003
Posts: 234
Location: near Cologne, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

it's bad to lose Jacob's mirror server, but I can fully understand him.

I've tried a while ago to distribute NeoOffice(/J) via Bittorrent, of which I think, it could be the right way of bringing Free Software under the people. But mostly the people didn't leave open their Bittorrent-Download and didn't let others participate the advantages of "distributed distribution".

May be it would be possible to put the stuff on Sourceforge? Or we could make a call for mirroring in some usenet-newsgroups?

Thomas
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jakeOSX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

once i read sourceforge had a 100meg limit, but I went back yesterday to confirm that and could not. so it still may be an option.

i've also been looking into other places that host oss files.

as for the bit torrent, it could still work, especially if a few of us keep ours up and running. (is there a way to turn bit torrent on to share a file after it has been closed?)

more to follow, still trying to see if my server is an option.

-j
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schlesi
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Joined: Jun 07, 2003
Posts: 234
Location: near Cologne, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:56 am    Post subject: How Bittorrent works (in short) Reply with quote

Jacob,

there's one "master" server for each Bittorent-file. When you want to share a file via Bittorrent, you must create a "fingerprint" of this file. The fingerprint is also a file, ending with ".torrent". Everybody who wants to download your shared file, must have access to this torrent-file, so it should be put on a web- or ftp-server und must be announced. The torrent-file includes also the name of the "master-server".

On the master-server, you'll start a "tracker"-software that knows, who is actually downloading the offered file and gives this information to each downloader. In addition, you must start a download-client, too, on the master-server.

When you download a file via Bittorrent, your client tries to connect to all other clients who are downloading and, if successful, get pieces of the file from different sources. While you are downloading and as long as your Bittorrent-clients is runnig, it will work as an upload-server for other downloaders.

The problem is that people don't leave open their Bittorrent-Clients after download.

Thomas
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jakeOSX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand that part, what I am wondering is there a way to turn sharing on?

As in, turn on my computer, start bittorrent and share Neo/J. Or, do I have to download Neo/J everytime I want to share it?

Or, is it something that gets put in the 'master' bittorrent file? to look and see if mine is on?

Must learn more about this. =)

-j
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schlesi
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Joined: Jun 07, 2003
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Location: near Cologne, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacob,

you must have opened the download-client for sharing. Here's the trick:

The Bittorrent-Client can continue downloads. When you already have downloaded a file completely, the client checks the download (100% done) and is now waiting for requests from other Bittorrent-clients.

Thomas
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pluby
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of moving NeoJ source and downloads to SourceForge sounds interesting. Clearly they have the infrastructure to support large downloads and source code hosting. Most importantly, SourceForge will host GPL code which is a big requirement of mine.

Also, a benefit of source forge is that we can lighten the burden that NeoJ forums and source code has placed on Ed's DSL connection.

Is this something we want to do? If so, I can try to set up an account at SourceForge this week and see if I run into any limits when I upload the upcoming NeoJ 0.8 binary.

Patrick
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Luke
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Joined: Sep 08, 2003
Posts: 63
Location: Teesside, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jakeOSX wrote

Quote:
I understand that part, what I am wondering is there a way to turn sharing on?

As in, turn on my computer, start bittorrent and share Neo/J. Or, do I have to download Neo/J everytime I want to share it?


If you want a more automated/controllable BitTorrent client, you might like to take a look at MLdonkey http://www.nongnu.org/mldonkey/

This implements the BitTorrent (and other) protocols as a daemon service. It just sits there and uploads 24/7. You can set bandwidth and connection number limits.

A binary of the OSX version is at http://homepage.mac.com/michelmoreau

Sorry if I'm wasting your time with stuff you know all about already.


Luke
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jakeOSX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick,

I started to sign up a project on sourceforge, but still couldn't find disk space info, so I emailed them about it. I'll pass the info on when i get it. (I also figured you should be the head honcho on sourceforge as well)

Luke,

Thanks for the info, I'll try that out. =)

-j
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pluby
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a SourceForge account so I can set up the project. In fact, since I own the copyright to all of the NeoJ code, it would be appropriate that I request the project.

Before I do this, however, I want to double-check with a few people to make sure that putting the code in SourceForge does not poison any future ability to use the NeoJ code as a basis for future OOo releases.

Although I'm not planning to donate the code to Sun, I do think that NeoJ is an excellent replacement for the OOo X11 code on Mac OS X and I would like to use NeoJ as a carrot to motivate them to drop the use of X11 and jump to something more native like NeoJ.

Ed,

What are your thoughts on this? Also, since you own the trademark to the NeoOffice name, would you be OK with its continued use for NeoOffice/J if it moved to SourceForge?

Patrick
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jakeOSX
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

since this is not my code, the following is just an opinion.

i did not realize there were implications to posting on sourceforge. from what i am hearing it sounds like it would be better to keep this in house. I'll keep looking into options, not only with the host i currently have but with others as well.

I can also look into using the house computer as a back up, though it would hinder my America's Army time. =)

someone who is bittorrent smart should set up something like that (and i'll get smart so i can help share it too)

and we keep looking.

-j
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pluby
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think putting it in SourceForge has any affect. I just thought that I would double-check to make sure that my interpretation of the SourceForge terms of use is correct.

As far as copyright versus license, here's the difference. I have licensed NeoOffice/J under the GPL. This can never be revoked and it would be the license that I would use if I moved the code to SourceForge.

Copyright is a different deal. By owning the copyright (since I wrote the code), I have the ability to license the code (in essence, provide copies) under diferent terms if I should so choose.

This does not affect the code released under GPL code. In fact, since the code is GPL already, the only time that someone would likely come to me to ask for a different license would be someone who wants to use my code in other code that is not GPL (the GPL license is a viral license).

Of course, that is precisely why I licensed the code under the GPL: to prevent code like tis from being coopted by a commercial company. Sure, any commercial company can use the NeoJ code, but under the GPL they must make the source available including any of their changes. In essence, the GPL prevents companies from copying the code and releasing enhanced versions that are not open-sourced.

Hope that gives you a clearer sense of my thoughts.

Patrick
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schlesi
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Joined: Jun 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacob,

I'll set up again Bittorrent for NeoOffice/J an then post the link to the .torrent-file here.

Thomas
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schlesi
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, NeoOffice/J-Bittorrent is up and running again Wink

Jacob.

please get the file ftp://schlesi.is-a-geek.org/NeoOfficeJ/NeoOfficeJ-0.7.1.dmg.torrent and open it with your Bittorrent-Client.

The Client now should start downloading. After it's finished, just leave it open Wink

I don't know what happens, when your client gets a new ip, if it's dynamic. May be you must reconnect the client after an ip-change.

Patrick, may be you could put the NeoOfficeJ-0.7.1.dmg.torrent on your webserver in the download-area? If so, you should add this line to your httpd.conf (if you use Apache):

Code:

AddType application/x-bittorrent .torrent


Thomas
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