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Lorinda
Captain Mifune
Joined: Jun 20, 2006
Posts: 2051
Location: Midwest, USA
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 Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| RoyFocker wrote: |
I'm "no one" to suggest things but (if it helps...):
1. Maybe we can "close" bugzilla only for problems that first are prooved and "reproduced" by other users. Therefore FIRST everybody have to ask in Trinity... and only "councilman" or "oracle" users can fill a bug in bugzilla.
2. Ed and Patrick only works on "Bugzilla" and don't "support" on Trinity. If there's a problem that need the "experience" or the work of Peter or Ed but it's not a bug, one "councilman" or "oracle" user has to say that on the fora and pm Ed or Patrick.
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The problem I see with "closing" bugzilla this way is that sometimes sample documents are needed in the process of confirming a bug. There is not a way to do this in trinity.
It might be a good idea, though, to add a "ask about the bug at trinity" step in the wiki page.
I would whole heartedly support your second suggestion, which I think is inherent in the original statement of changed priorities. This wouldn't need to involve a change in the current forum setup. I would think it could just be an understanding of forum policies, and those of us who are regulars could explain it to any new/less active posters who grumble. |
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sardisson
Town Crier
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Lorinda wrote: | | Thanks for the breakdown on the current status levels and criteria. I found it very helpful. I was going to offer to add it to the wiki, but it looks like Smokey beat me to it. |
I had been meaning to ask Patrick about that ever since I saw the name change, but I hadn't had the chance 
And now I've broken the wiki (no good deed goes unpunished)... 
Smokey
_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki |
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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i knew about the current neooffice guide when i made my suggestion. i suggested it independent of that effort purely for copyright reasons.
and mostly i was just throwing out ideas. which we all are, this is just a suggestion, just a discussion. in the end, Ed and Patrick will make a post telling us how it will be. it is their project, it is there decision.
and just to be clear, the neowiki will always be free.
i have volunteered in the past, and would volunteer again to work on the website. perhaps some cleaning it up would make the download and donate pages more prominant.
also, perhaps a press release? send it out to the major places, have the standard PBS line "funding for this program comes from supportive users like you." |
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OPENSTEP
The One
Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| jakeOSX wrote: | | bake sales, neo-cookies and topless car washes are also recommended. |
I'll attend the topless car wash 
I think the exchange of ideas is really a good thing. The user guide is going to be great and wonderful and hopefully will help a lot of newbies as well. The fora aren't a problem yet and people do actively help each other which is awesome. And the user guide is cool too and will be very helpful
Patrick - thanks for summarizing the recent changes to BZ. Does anyone have the time to wiki them?
When I bitch about money it's not that I'm complaining about anything personal. I personally don't need anything more as I have a full time job that fills my need. It's just frustration. I know that if we had a more significant cash flow we could hire staff to start answering people's questions and resolve BZ request issues, even if part time, and really satisfy the needs of the kinds of user support requests I've been seeing as of late. As that money doesn't exist to pay someone, I don't want to ask volunteers to support corporate entities that give nothing back in kind. I don't see a way to address those new needs, and perhaps I'm a pessimist...I can think of no creative solutions and so I just rant instead. I am just too personally attached and am not in a position to dissociate myself to start thinking out of the box.
I greatly appreciate the exchange. It's helpful for figuring out how the community can evolve to embrace needs of the new class of users we're starting to see
ed |
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OPENSTEP
The One
Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jakeOSX wrote: | | and just to be clear, the neowiki will always be free. |
And so will trinity. And so will always the ability to file bugs (even if they don't get resolved  ).
I'd love to find a way to scale user support but just can't think of a way to fund it and really think it's sick to ask volunteers to fill that hole.
The key thing is that we're venting and brainstorming. The great thing is that there have been creative responses to addressing a problem in the making and perhaps we can find a way to solve it that is commiserate with our ideals
And yes...unfortunately stress burnout is a critical factor we need to consider. It does lead to a dark place, and that's somewhere where no one should go. I've been there before in my life and it's not a safe place to be.
ed |
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| OPENSTEP wrote: | And yes...unfortunately stress burnout is a critical factor we need to consider. It does lead to a dark place, and that's somewhere where no one should go. I've been there before in my life and it's not a safe place to be.
ed |
it shouldn't come to burnout.
i'll repeat. it should not come to burnout.
you are not saving the world. you are not under contract to provide a product by a date. you are not keeping your finger on the bomb. if it is getting to feel like any of those things, then stop. turn off the computer for 24 hours and do something else.
seriously.
both of you started this as more of a hobby than anything else. this was a challenge to get away from stress, not induce it.
besides, smokey and i are old enough to be alone. i mean, we don't need a sitter and we promise not to throw a party. at least a big one. |
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pluby
The Architect
Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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I agree totally with Ed's comments. After reading many of the posts, however, I get that sense that at least a few people are making this change out to be much bigger than it is.
All we are doing is making our Bugzilla response times similar to most other large open source software projects. I can guarantee that 99.9% of users won't even notice a change. The only change that anyone will see is that you won't get a test patch within 24 hours for non-critical annoyance bugs. This level of support hasn't stopped tens of millions of users from being able to use Firefox or OpenOffice.org and, frankly, even premium corporate support will rarely get you any better service or response times.
In fact, I believe that by being so responsive to all bugs, Ed and I have essentially discouraged new users from participating in the community. By getting routine questions answered through Bugzilla, new users have no real encouragment to search wider afield for their answer or talk with other users on our forums.
Patrick |
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OPENSTEP
The One
Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, reading our original posts I guess they seem really draconian
| jakeOSX wrote: | | besides, smokey and i are old enough to be alone. i mean, we don't need a sitter and we promise not to throw a party. at least a big one. |
Dude, if you have a dancing pole in your house I'll pay for the sitter. Let's party.
ed |
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MacRat
Sake Horner
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 364
Location: Earth
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| OPENSTEP wrote: |
It does lead to a dark place, and that's somewhere where no one should go. I've been there before in my life and it's not a safe place to be.
ed |
What's her name? (the dark place) |
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djpimley
The Anomaly
(earlier version)
Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: Great Britain
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| MacRat wrote: |
What's her name? (the dark place) |
Dark Places - can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. |
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yoxi
Cipher
Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:52 am Post subject: |
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...et voila:
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jakeOSX
Ninja
Joined: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 1373
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:28 am Post subject: |
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dear yoxi,
i am unsure of what to do with this information. please advise.
-j |
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yoxi
Cipher
Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Dude, if you have a dancing pole in your house I'll pay for the sitter. Let's party. |
Buy one, get one free.
/behold the generosity
//fozzy would be proud [o hell, now you've got me doing it...] |
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pluby
The Architect
Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Lorinda wrote: | I propose to amend it to:
| Quote: | | Important: Before filing a bug: 1) get the latest bug fixes by downloading and installing the latest NeoOffice patch installer and 2) Read the Bugzilla guide. |
Where "the latest NeoOffice patch" is a link to the patch (as now)
and "the Bugzilla Guide" is a link to: http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/Bugzilla_Guide |
FYI. This change is now on the Bugzilla home page and add a new bug page.
Patrick |
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OPENSTEP
The One
Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| jakeOSX wrote: | dear yoxi,
i am unsure of what to do with this information. please advise.
-j |
I am half polish...and I guess since I also play DDR...does that count?
I think every situation needs a bit of humor
Patrick: thanks for the updates to the BZ copy.
ed |
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