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NeoOffice :: View topic - Zipping a zip file
Zipping a zip file
 
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Samwise
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: Montpellier, France

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Zipping a zip file Reply with quote

Why do people keep zipping ODF documents. Most ODF documents (and, as far as I know, all ODF documents created with OpenOffice.org) are already zipped.

Depending on how the document has been zipped, unzipping it with the Finder will either produce a folder, or a document and a folder. In the first case, you need to change the extension from .ods.zip to .ods to be able to use the file, and in the latter case, changing the extension won't work (apparently, the document is corrupt, and the "repaired document" is empty), so you need to unzip the archive, and get an extra folder which is not needed.. The double-zipped file is sometimes smaller than the single-zipped one, but not by more than 10% - is it really worth it ?

But many ODF documents, like some attachments Bugzilla for example, are zipped !

Why do people keep zipping files that are already zipped ?
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many people's experience (including mine) has been that a zipped doc is more likely to make it from start to finish in a net/email journey than an unzipped one - so perhaps it's force of habit (and especially for folk exchanging files in OS9, where there's resource fork data to be lost as your files pass through someone's winxx web server deathstar).

At least it's not .sit (or .hqx or .whateverthehell)

- padmavyuha
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11882
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are people really doing this or is that Safari's bad behavior? Safari likes to probe into ODF files and concludes that it is really a zip file and, as a result, it acts smart and tries to make it behave like a zip file.

This behavior annoys me greatly so I never use Safari. This behavior, coupled with Safari's brain-dead habit of never checking that a downloaded file's byte size matches the bytes listed in the HTTP Content-length header (which causes Safari to treat truncated downloads as successful), make Safari a rather weak browser, IMHO.

Patrick
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Samwise
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: Montpellier, France

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pluby wrote:
Are people really doing this or is that Safari's bad behavior? Safari likes to probe into ODF files and concludes that it is really a zip file and, as a result, it acts smart and tries to make it behave like a zip file.


I've never tried to download a Bugzilla attachment from another browser, but it makes sense.

yoxi wrote:
Many people's experience (including mine) has been that a zipped doc is more likely to make it from start to finish in a net/email journey than an unzipped one - so perhaps it's force of habit (and especially for folk exchanging files in OS9, where there's resource fork data to be lost as your files pass through someone's winxx web server deathstar).


Zipping files in an email can also ensure that your mail app doesn't display them inline without even offering the option of saving them as separate files on your hard drive.

Anyway, I just needed to rant about this Smile
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aussie149
The Merovingian


Joined: Feb 12, 2005
Posts: 607
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Zipped Reply with quote

Actually, I've been doing it for the files that I put on the user Guide website. I did it after complaint/s that people were trying to unzip the .odt file, because it looked like a zip file to them [or was it that they were using Safari, and the file got unzipped for them? - can't remember]. As you know, if you unzip a .odt file, you end up with an interesting but useless folder. So I thought I'd zip it and then prevent that happening. But I'm happy to stop doing it if sensibilities are offended. It takes ten seconds I might use for something else Smile

Peter
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I have seen this garbage go on too. To be fair, it's a natural result...programs try to be too helpful to users at figuring out what to do, and OOo for using just a plain old ZIP archive format for the document (yes, it's useful to hack documents, but it's a rat's nest for all of those durned applications that don't understand opendocument!!).

The BZ apache server is configured to map the OpenDocument extensions to the proper MIME types. This must be Safari smoking crack. Same way it's overly helpful and tries to debinhex .hqx files or mount disk images automatically.

ed
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sardisson
Town Crier
Town Crier


Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Camino, and I've never seen a single case of this (except for Peter zipping up parts of his guide), so it must be Safari being brain-dead. I discovered some time ago that Safari likes to rewrite filenames when saving (as if it knows better than everyone...so...Microsoftian Sad ).

I'd like to rant about rtf and ".log" crashlogs, but... Wink

Smokey

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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check if it's a mimetype thing on the server. I explicitly added in the opendocument types, but it hasn't helped Safari squat Wink

ed
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LemonAid
The Anomaly


Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 1285
Location: Witless Protection Program

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I avoid Safari because of the many little problems. Sad
I can't see using another non-standard program when Foxfire/SeaMonkey work fine AND follow standards.

Philip ( if only NeoOffice have a Browser/email/Calendar module! Just Kidding!!! Twisted Evil )
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Baggypants
Councilperson


Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clearly ODF guys should have chosen their file compression as rar Twisted Evil
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Samwise
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: Montpellier, France

PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggypants wrote:
clearly ODF guys should have chosen their file compression as rar Twisted Evil


Except RAR is proprietary Wink
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Baggypants
Councilperson


Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Posts: 108
Location: Salford, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samwise wrote:
Baggypants wrote:
clearly ODF guys should have chosen their file compression as rar Twisted Evil


Except RAR is proprietary Wink


I know that. Rolling Eyes Laughing

frankly rar is a huge pain in the backside all round, especially if you don't use windows. But thats a whole other rant.
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still think it's a bit looney about how they built in zip compression and then claimed "hey, we've got smaller files lolz!" when really they should've been comparing against compressed Word docs to be fair...Smile

ed
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When did you last see marketing department play fair?

-Oz

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"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, 20 years down the line, I think the whole "flouride prevents cavity" line in the 80s was pretty on target...

But that's a total stretch Very Happy

Though the chevy nova was also pretty on target. How many of those do you see on the roads today

ed

/biased against marketing
//but why do they always have the hot chikas?
///hehe byu...my bracket's screwed
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