Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: Support Page and Resources
I was looking at the Support Page this morning, to begin to think about what to move over to a new Resources Page, and I think I've changed my mind about the best way to go about this.
Originally, I thought I should leave some of the resources on that page. But now I think that some of the "text" from the "How Do I Find Information on Other Usage Questions?" should be moved up to the first Support section and that all of the resources should go on a new resources page along with the additional items that Philip found.
Specifically, I'm thinking that the further explanations about the wiki (including the Tips and Hints page) and searching the forums should go up above, and that the link in the Support section to the "How Do I Find Information on Other Usage Questions?" should become a link to the new Resources page.
Opinions? Suggestions? Refinements?
If I end up with wiki time before we've reached a consensus, I'll work on the new Resources page; either that or I'll translate the page numbers page; We had a request about that today, and there's not an English version at the moment.
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Support Page and Resources
Lorinda wrote:
Originally, I thought I should leave some of the resources on that page. But now I think that some of the "text" from the "How Do I Find Information on Other Usage Questions?" should be moved up to the first Support section and that all of the resources should go on a new resources page along with the additional items that Philip found.
Specifically, I'm thinking that the further explanations about the wiki (including the Tips and Hints page) and searching the forums should go up above, and that the link in the Support section to the "How Do I Find Information on Other Usage Questions?" should become a link to the new Resources page.
Opinions? Suggestions? Refinements?
Lorinda
I agree with you Lorinda. I see no reason to split the resources into two pages: Support and Resources.
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject:
ditto
Quote:
Specifically, I'm thinking that the further explanations about the wiki (including the Tips and Hints page) and searching the forums should go up above,
and that the link in the Support section to the "How Do I Find Information on Other Usage Questions?" should become a link to the new Resources page.
I think the link could be changed from "... Other Usage Questions?" to something like: "Additional Resources and .... something?"
The new Resources page could have SECTIONS for the different Resources categories:
- Documentation,
- Forums,
- Training,
- etc
I know that some(many) items could be listed in several of the sections listed above.
As a User, I'd like to see some items listed in different sections - instead of one huge list.
Things can always be moved it they fit better in some section other than Documentation, later.
I consent - for all that is worth!
Philip ( a tiny part of the best community around! )
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:16 pm Post subject:
Yeah, I thought I'd do something like:
-User Guides-
-Forums-
-Blogs-
-Tutorials-
-Books-
I'd toyed with Neo specific vs. OOo specific divisions, too, but I think we're better off with a division by "media type" and just annotate the links as needed. (Or, potential add Neo and OOo subsections to applicable categories)
One other note, when translating this (yet to be created) page, I think that the resources in those languages should be highlighted, and a clear distinction made between those and English resources. I will try to remember to include commented subcategories for "native language" resources in the English version.
This means that the pages in various languages won't be a strict "translation," as the available resources and links will vary by language. (For example, I know there is a francophone forum for OOo/Neo, and Jacqueline pointed me to a French guide for Base that is not an official OOo publication.).
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject:
Looks EXCELLENT - to me.
Media breakdown is about as good as possible.
( I still have problems with "Blogs", and how that sometimes differers from Forums, and other forms of Web Pages. sigh! )
I like tagging items with Language notations ( EN, FR, IT, etc!). Follows with Wiki styles and is easy to tag.
1. Why do we have to have multiple language pages? - Maybe we can put all the links on one central page and just TAG them with language codes? Then people who can understand multiple languages ( mostly NOT in the USA ) could see all resources?
Just an (wild) idea - might make it easier on the Wiki Elves too? YMMV
2. Will it be possible to have more detailed sub-lists?
Like when I have listed multiple articles under Bruce Byfield? Just list them indented/or-something and let the user find the ones that best suits their needs (Styles, Biblographies, Number ing, etc). These individual articles are an AMAZING source of information - and sometime so hard to find.
3. I'm less concerned with having Neo vs. OOo specific versions/listings. The base code is so ... similar and the custom references for Neo so ... small.
Just so people know that NeoOffice 2.1 is OOo 2.1 code based - and updated as time goes on.
I'm so excited that this Reference Resource is ... growing.
Sorry that I'm such a pain-in-the-backside with all these ... ideas.
Seems I'm much better at doing online research for sources than writing it all down - in a readable fashion.
IMO it would be good to have Other_Languages_Resources pages, with links from the En page. Otherwise the Resources page will be threatened by becoming too huge as time goes on, and it will be difficult to manage it.
The whole point to having various pages in the wiki in various different languages is so that people can easily find resources in their own languages. Making the Support page, or a Support/Resources page, or whatever, a single multilingual page will just be a nightmare.
Currently, the English support page lists only English resources, while the other language pages list English resources where there are not comprable ones (e.g., oooforum.org, just because of its breadth) supplemented by similar language-specific resources (e.g., the German community OOo forum). But for resources where there are exact matches (e.g., the StarOffice manuals are available in several languages) or very comprable ones, the English one is replaced by the language-specific one.
I don't see any reason to change that. Am I missing something?
(Actually, I know I'm missing something, because I'm not really clear at all as to what this thread is proposing be created/modified to begin with )
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
I'm not exactly clear either. Here is what I understood:
The (actually four) Support pages remain, but the four "How do I Find Information on Other Usage Questions?" sections move to Resources pages. The En one will contain all the links provided by Philip, and more… The Support page will point to the Resources page.
The problem is how to manage the localized Resources pages? A link to the En_Resources page plus links to locale resources seems an acceptable solution.
But it's just a suggestion and not necessary a good one.
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 11:33 am Post subject:
Smokey, my apologies. This discussion started in the "Tips to Add to the Wiki" thread, and I broke it out, but then I neglected to reference the pertinent posts. So, here goes:
My original thought was to trim down the resources on the support page and create a new resources page (for the "extra" links), so that the support page and related lists didn't become too long and unwieldly. Looking at the support article again, I reconsidered, and thought maybe all the resources should be moved to a different page. This would be more consistent with the other "how do I" links, and keep all the documentation/support resources together.
Lorinda
Edit note: I had erroneously attributed the added resources to Smokey, not Philip in first link above, something I've now corrected; my apologies. I was in a rush and didn't proof-read carefully enough. Sigh....
Last edited by Lorinda on Tue May 01, 2007 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject:
jgd wrote:
The (actually four) Support pages remain, but the four "How do I Find Information on Other Usage Questions?" sections move to Resources pages. The En one will contain all the links provided by Philip, and more… The Support page will point to the Resources page.
The problem is how to manage the localized Resources pages? A link to the En_Resources page plus links to locale resources seems an acceptable solution.
But it's just a suggestion and not necessary a good one.
Jacqueline
Ouch, owww, darn
FORGET my (silly) suggestion about NOT having Localized Resource pages.
I guess I was thinking ... out loud.
I agree that would create an even bigger mess - opps.
I like/agree/concur with Lorinda's proposals for a New (EN) "Additional Resources Page", with sections for the various media support ( Documents, Forums, Web Log, Authors/Books (Gee, we can list Amazon.com items! , etc ).
I ... hope this would provide a more central location to publish the large number of References Resources available for Neo/OOo. I know this is a silly wish/dream.
It's just that I have this (mental) image of a listing that contains the many resources that community members have found, and posted, in message threads, Wiki articles, and such.
I'm just full of ... suggests (that seem "brilliant" to me? ).
Must be the 35+ years of End User support.
Philip ( Whose Ideas are bigger than his ... Skills?!? )
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject:
I, too, think it would be too cumbersome to keep all languages on one page; separate pages for each of the "wiki languages" makes the most sense; Smokey's explanation about including some links to English resources like the OOo forums on all the pages seems reasonable to me, too.
Given that the various language pages aren't straight translations in this case, I do think it would be a good idea to include a note that additional resources are available in other languages, and point folks to the botlangbar at the bottom of the page.
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject:
I've gotten a start on the (proposed) new Resources page in the wiki. It is very rough at the moment; mostly it is a conceptual layout at the moment. I'll keep working on it over the next week or so.
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:15 pm Post subject:
Wow!
It looks even better today! THANKS!
Suggestions?
1. It might be good to list the http://documentation.openoffice.org/ link at the start of the User Guides section. That way folks can go directly to the full web page for items, and in case the URLs of the individual documents change.
then you can note that it includes:
The OpenOffice.org Documentation Project
- User Manuals
- How Tos
- FAQs - Frequently Asked Questions
- Setup Guides
- Application Online Help
- Developer Documentation
- Samples, Templates and Clipart
- Tutorials
- Articles and Reviews
- Documentation from other OpenOffice.org projects
- Third party resources
- OOoForums
- Archive
With the items you have now -- called out for SPECIAL ATTENTION. Or something like that?
I know it's seems silly, but I like having the lists - listed like you did for "Bruce Byfield" and the others. Because "WE" never know what other users are looking for.
I just have this idea to get as many items listed as possible, to help new users find the resources that they don't know are available. After a few searches they should get the idea where they can find additional information.
Thanks for the GREAT efforts. Tis a thing of ... beauty!
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject:
Yeah, I had some extra time this weekend, so I got a chunk of it done. Since the documentation project list includes things is a wide variety of categories, I wasn't comfortable adding it to the first section. But I created a new section at the end titled "Related External Links" and added it there.
You keep offering us suggestions, and we might petition Smokey to give you an official mystic wiki elf hat and wiki editing account!
Seriously, though, as gifted as you are at finding links, it would be easy for you to add links to the wiki. The syntax for url links is very simple:
[http://www.urlhere.com See this link]
In other words, you enclose the url and the text to be seen inside a set of square brackets, putting a space between the url and the beginning of the text.
One of the things on my to-do list is tackling the pages for the separate components. I have in mind moving module-specific tips to those pages and adding a "documentation" section for module-specific documentation and internet resources. Then you could add links to your heart's delight! Of course, I'm not sure when I'll get around to it. I still have some work on the Resources page, then it will be time to rearrange a couple sections on the Support page, plus there are some French "only" articles that I have my eye on.
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