Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: Will NeoOffice be Universal Soon?
I'm wondering if a universal version of NeoOffice is under development, and what the projected cost for such a version is? I've also noticed that not all features in the menu items are functional. When will this package be feature complete, and universal?
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject:
Universal probably will not happen at all. It's been answered a number of other places but I can summarize again:
The primary reason is bandwidth. We already use terabytes of bandwidth per month. OOo (& Neo) are very large packages and large downloads, > 100 MB a piece. If we increased the download size by twice, our bandwidth needs would double (as would the size of the download of every dimage and patch for every user...).
There are other technical reasons with shared library naming and the like that make going Universal easier than it sounds. The bandwidth one, however, remains our primary motivating factor.
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject:
Welcome to NeoOffice WHowardF,
Interesting question. I asked the same thing when I first started using NeoOffice.
Then I realized that it did not matter unless I would be running Neo from a file server.
I run each program on computer it's installed on so there was no need to have both PPC and Intel in a Universal package, on my one Mac.
More discussion can be found on this thread. And in the NeoWiki
Question to Patrick / Ed.
Does a Universal application have:
1. PPC & Intel code and run the correct code on each computer or
2. the Universal application "installs" the correct code on each computer (PPC or Intel, depending)?
I thought that having a Universal code application was just a nice way to deliver one package that would install on either a PPC or Intel.
3. Why would I want both code bases on each, and every, computer??
Hope you find NeoOffice helpful.
Philip ( Why would I want Twice the ... bloat?!? )
Question to Patrick / Ed.
Does a Universal application have:
1. PPC & Intel code and run the correct code on each computer or
2. the Universal application "installs" the correct code on each computer (PPC or Intel, depending)?
"Universal" is a nifty marketing term. Basically, to be Universal, you compile your code on an Intel machine and then on a PPC machine. Then, for each binary that you compiled, you concatenate the Intel and PPC files into a single file.
In other words, Universal binaries are just binary files with Intel and PPC halves. Apple has merely tweaked the OS to notice that ignore that the first half of the file if its chip doesn't match the current machine's chip.
LemonAid wrote:
3. Why would I want both code bases on each, and every, computer??
I have no idea. The only advantage that I can see is that the user doesn't have to figure out if they should click on the Intel or PowerPC link on our download page.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:26 am Post subject: Universal binary
pluby wrote:
"Universal" is a nifty marketing term. Basically, to be Universal, you compile your code on an Intel machine and then on a PPC machine. Then, for each binary that you compiled, you concatenate the Intel and PPC files into a single file.
This is not completely true. You can e.g. create universal binary only on Intel. Even for PPC. I even have an experimental set of patches in my build system (http://ftp.linux.cz/pub/localization/OpenOffice.org/devel/build/Patches/SRC680/, files with UB in the names). With these patches, you'll get completely universal application with only one exception: bridges.
For bridges, there is one more step needed (rename PPC and Intel source files to be able to compile them both in one go).
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:52 am Post subject:
Thank you for sharing that detail with us Pavel,
Universal does not seem like something that I "have to have".
My system runs find without having both sets of code.
It does seem nice for a vendor to put only one package on an installation CD.
Congratulations on all your code efforts. It looks like you are working your way through the many Aqua requirements.
Your efforts are appreciated.
Philip ( Supporting the whole community, one question at a time! )
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: Macs are all intel loaded now... Why wait?
Thanks for all the responses...
I really enjoy NeoOffice, with exception to the non functioning options in the menus , and I think this particular suite has been well thought out and implemented. However,
A universal, or split build, would be a better direction to take--in my lay opinion--because eventually dedicated Mac Users will buy intel loaded Macs.
The integration of the various Apps in the suite is not as tight as it should be yet--that is--it's not point and click simple yet for us simpletons. This office suite is at a point of commercial viability, and if sold for $50.00-$75.00 after it's ported for intel and feature completed, development efforts could pay off. I realize it's open source, and I'm not sure what the open source thing is all about, but this can be a strong competitor for MS and Apple's upcoming additions to iWork. Just some thoughts... So forgive me for being so bold about it.
Walt.
Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 561 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Macs are all intel loaded now... Why wait?
WHowardF wrote:
A universal, or split build, would be a better direction to take--in my lay opinion--because eventually dedicated Mac Users will buy intel loaded Macs.
Which don't need a Universal version of NeoOffice, they need the Intel version!
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:26 am Post subject: Re: Macs are all intel loaded now... Why wait?
WHowardF wrote:
I really enjoy NeoOffice, with exception to the non functioning options in the menus ,
Which menu options are non-functional? Aside from the File>Print issues (which are covered under Format>Page instead), I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: Yes!!! An intel version... But?
Lorinda wrote:
WHowardF wrote:
I really enjoy NeoOffice, with exception to the non functioning options in the menus ,
Which menu options are non-functional? Aside from the File>Print issues (which are covered under Format>Page instead), I can't think of any off the top of my head.
Lorinda
I guess what I mean is that some of the menu items lead to more complex windows, etc., that require extensive reading/trial and error to master. When I speak about dysfunctional, I really mean "not so intuitive." I guess I need to download all the docs and spend about a month reading the intricate details of adding a table of contents, etc... In an earlier post, I wrote about pre canned templates being a part of the download, because they would be of help in showing new users how to use the nice features in Neo Office. Rather than sending someone all over the place for docs.
As for the "intel version", I stated Universal because it should eliminate the need for X11, which would improve speed and functionality--threadability?
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:22 am Post subject:
The menu items leading to complex windows is a function of the underlying OpenOffice.org code. Trying to alter that is way beyond the scope of the NeoOffice project or resources.
In terms of the table of contents, there's a good wiki article on how to do those. It shouldn't take a month to read it.
There are also links for sources of templates (including some extensive packages) in the wiki as well. I don't have time to geet the exact links for you, but go to http://neowiki.neooffice.org and search for an appropriate key-word and you may well find all the info/instructions you need.
I don't understand your comment about X11. NeoOffice doesn't require X11; it never has. There are both PPC and Intel versions of NeoOffice available.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Yes!!! An intel version... But?
WHowardF wrote:
As for the "intel version", I stated Universal because it should eliminate the need for X11, which would improve speed and functionality--threadability?
...are you sure that you're talking about NeoOffice, and not OpenOffice.org? Neo does not require X11; in fact, that's the whole point of the project. Also, being universal does not have anything to do with speed, functionality, or need for a different windowing system. It just means one version of the program will run on Intel or PPC Macs.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:54 pm Post subject: okay... I goofed
Okay, so I had me going there thinking that the speed of Neo Office was related to it not being intel/universal.
I understand now about the underlying openoffice code now, and can see why it's as slow as it is. I appologize for any frustration I may have caused.
Thanks for your help, and humility.
Joined: Nov 21, 2005 Posts: 1285 Location: Witless Protection Program
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject:
Glad you visited NeoOffice WHowardF,
There is a LOT of history behind NeoOffice and why some things work the way they do. A LOT of that has to do with the underlying OpenOffice.org code base. NeoOffice is about putting a Mac Aqua interface in front of OOo - not changing the whole design to be designed just for the Mac.
Neo/OOo is a HUGE program and what seems like a simple change can have far reaching consequences. The progress seems slow, but it's steady.
Reading some of the articles on the NeoWiki first page will help explain a LOT!
There are so many features/functions/options/ and such that not reviewing the User Guide and Migration Guides listed on the Documentation_and_Related_Resources will cause lots of wasted time, and effort. The information is available, when you need it.
Philip ( I can usually find a Users Guide for any NeoOffice module in a few minutes! ) _________________ Have you checked the NeoWiki Documentation Page for more answers?
http://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/Documentation_and_Related_Resources
includes User Guides, eBooks, Blogs, additional resource links, and much more!
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)
, and I think this particular suite has been well thought out and implemented. However,
