Joined: Sep 07, 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: Font family not recognized in NeoOffice 2
NeoOffice 2 beta 3 patch 7 is not recognizing font family to all my Hebrew fonts.
These are all truetype windows version fonts. The font are recognized by other applications: TextEdit, "Mellel" word processor and InDesign.
I also installed them into OpenOffice 2.0.4, and they are also recognized.
Only with NeoOffice I get a font name for each style. So if I have 3 different styles for the same font, I get 3 different names.
Is there any known solution to that problem, or is it a bug?
Joined: Jun 20, 2006 Posts: 2051 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:
I just checked my font list, and this appears to be true for any font that has bold, italic, or other variants. In my case, at least, it is not limited to the Hebrew fonts I have installed.
I'm guessing this is because NeoOffice doesn't access fonts the same way many Mac OS programs do. In my case there is an advantage, as Neo will recognzie TekniaGreek, while Font Book will not.
Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Font family not recognized in NeoOffice 2
moshed wrote:
I also installed them into OpenOffice 2.0.4, and they are also recognized.
Only with NeoOffice I get a font name for each style. So if I have 3 different styles for the same font, I get 3 different names.
This is normal behavior for both NeoOffice and OpenOffice.org. I'm not sure what you are seeing in OOo 2.0.4, but when I run 2.0.4, I see a separate font for each style. For example, for the Raanana family, I see two fonts: Raanana and RaananaBold.
That is the way that the OOo font code works: it breaks a font family down into its component fonts and lists them individually in the menu—so Apple's standard Times becomes Times Roman, Times Italic, Times Bold, and Times Bold Italic.
Clicking on the bold or italic buttons when Times Roman is the active font will produce text that is properly mapped to Times Italic or Times Bold; if that is not happening with your Hebrew fonts, that is a bug.
Edit: beaten to the punch, twice!
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Joined: Sep 07, 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:06 am Post subject: Re: Font family not recognized in NeoOffice 2
pluby wrote:
moshed wrote:
I also installed them into OpenOffice 2.0.4, and they are also recognized.
Only with NeoOffice I get a font name for each style. So if I have 3 different styles for the same font, I get 3 different names.
This is normal behavior for both NeoOffice and OpenOffice.org. I'm not sure what you are seeing in OOo 2.0.4, but when I run 2.0.4, I see a separate font for each style. For example, for the Raanana family, I see two fonts: Raanana and RaananaBold.
Patrick
OO breaks the fonts only for truetype mac version. If you install a truetype windows version, OO shows it as one font file.
I installed Times New Roman Windows version with spadmin into OO and it shows one font file.
I also took the Raanana and RaananaBold fonts, converted them on windows to truetype windows version and installed them back to OO. They are shown as one file font in OO, but two files on NeoOffice.
If NeoOffice behavior is driven from OO, than I think this should be considered as a bug.
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Font family not recognized in NeoOffice 2
moshed wrote:
If NeoOffice behavior is driven from OO, than I think this should be considered as a bug.
Since the OOo code has no font family coalescing code, I am inclined to think that you are seeing a bug in OOo X11. Specifically, I suspect that OOo X11 is only recognizing the plain font within the font family. After all, in NeoOffice you are seeing the bold version so what happened to the bold version in OOo X11? Remember that OOo does not use native fonts but, instead, makes a copy of your font using the Fondu tool and it is quite possible that Fondu is not converting anything bug the non-bold font in that font family.
Joined: Sep 07, 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Tel Aviv, Israel
Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject:
I'm steel having a problem to understand how this works.
I installed a Windows truetype font with 3 typefaces to Windows, the same font to my mac, and again to OO on my Mac (without converting the font).
On OO under Windows the font is shown as one file. Clicking the icons of bold or italic changes the font according to it's typeface. The same is on OO under Mac. On both versions of OO the font name is the same. With NeoOffice the font name is different.
This is one example of a font from many:
Font family name David CLM in 3 typefaces:
David CLM Bold
David CLM Medium
David CLM MediumItalic
It doesn't look like a specific Hebrew fonts problem. All font that are native Windows fonts get one font name under OO on Windows and on Mac too.
I made a document using the font with NeoOffice selecting David CLM Medium, and giving it a style like italic, it shows fine. When opening it with OO (on Mac or on Windows), the font does not show properly, because the font name in the document is David CLM Medium, and the font list on OO shows the family name of the font, David CLM.
I have the file and the font on my dotmac site. Can someone check this problem to help?
I tried using the Font Book application to install your three fonts and Font Book says that for all three fonts "Serious problems were found. Do not use this font".
Let me repeat this again as it is important: OOo X11 does not use Mac OS X native fonts. NeoOffice does. It is wonderful that the X11 software can make sense out of these fonts, but Mac OS X cannot.
..and one thing. Even if you do install your fonts, the TextEdit application and every other Mac OS X native application (again, OOo X11 is not native) shows the following three fonts just like NeoOffice:
David CLM Bold
David CLM Medium
David CLM MediumItalic
Sorry that Mac OS X does not handle fonts exactly the same as Windows and X11, but since NeoOffice uses native font APIs, NeoOffice gets the font names that Mac OS X uses for all native apps.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: font example
Hi Patrick,
I just made a pdf-file which shows my problem. The first three rows shows what happens if I use the "bold" and "italic" button. The last three rows what if I select the bold and italic fonts from the font-menu.
I understand that Mac does have a different font-handling, but the MSword for Mac at least do change the font-type to the real bold and italic style with the bold and italic short-cut resp. click on the icon. And hopefuly NeoOffice can do the same.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: font example
olafhamburg wrote:
I understand that Mac does have a different font-handling, but the MSword for Mac at least do change the font-type to the real bold and italic style with the bold and italic short-cut resp. click on the icon. And hopefuly NeoOffice can do the same.
You did not tell us how the TextEdit application works as that is what NeoOffice models its font bold/italic matching from or if you tried the test patch. While I understand your desire to have MS Office be the standard, where there are differences we will use Apple's behavior as that is usually what Apple's font handling functions provide.
In contrast, MS Office uses its own proprietary algorigthm. The fact that Office cannot recognize a bold or italic font by its real name confirms this. Unfortunately, we do not have the funding nor engineers to reverse engineer MS Office's proprietary code. However, if the behavior is different than the TextEdit application's and you can get us free access to the font to debug any differences between TextEdit and NeoOffice, then we will definitely look at it.
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