Templates Listing in the wiki (And Clip Art, Macros, etc.)

[Lorinda]

In a recent thread about templates, Jake suggested that the list of templates be separated out from the Editing Default Styles and Using Templates page.

Here's the page Jake created today:

https://neowiki.neooffice.org/index.php/Templates%2C_Clip_Art_and_Macros

I've been meaning to suggest we separate the Default Styles and Templates pages, and somehow never get around to it.

The question at this point is the best way to do that.

Currently, multi-component template collects are listed on the Default Styles and Templates page, and component specific templates are listed on the corresponding component page (NeoCalc, NeoWriter, etc.)

Would it make the most sense to create a Sources of Templates page that includes sections for the various components and a general "multi-component" section?

Should Clip-Art, Macros, and Extensions be on this new page, or should they each have their own page?

Currently there's a short list of Macros at the bottom of the Using Macros wiki page.

Clip-Art sources are currently listed on the Using Clipart

I thought we had a page listing extensions, but I don't find it.

Lorinda

[Lorinda]

Having raised the question, here are my thoughts:

-Split the Editing Default Styles and Templates page by creating a Using Templates page that covers how to use Templates and provides a list of templates. Given the potential length of the templates list, I'd also be amenable to a three way split: Editing Default Styles, Using Templates, and Sources of Templates.

-Either keep the Clip-Art sources list on the Using Clip-Art page, or create a separate Sources of Clip-Art page

-Given the length of the Using Macros article, it would probably be wise to create a Sources for Macros and Extensions page. (Or should Macros and Extensions be separated? I'm leaning toward not, as there's a pretty extensive overlap between these two categories).

In terms of consistency across the wiki, a Using X and Source of X system might make more sense.

What do the other wiki elves think?

Lorinda

[K-9]

Not an elf; but I think that maybe all templates should be together on a page - maybe broken down into the writer, calc, etc. facets. Maybe you can have a link on the relevant writer or calc or whatever page to the compendium of templates, etc. Same for the extensions etc. A sort of one stop source of all templates, extensions, and whatever other aspect that is used for Neo. Does this make sense? or should I delete this post for commenting nonsense?


(Personally, I am not fond of wiki's and the idea in general. I do respect and have mentioned to a linux forum about how good Neo's wiki is and the control that is used in Neo's wiki, etc, re; not having just any Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane posting and commenting; but a serious group of people that have earned the right to tweak it for Neo's benefit - as a source of admiration and a model. So it is a solid wiki. I have not spent much time looking around and getting to know what is available. so I am the blind commenting on the blind. But I do respect all of the work and the outcome of Neo's wiki.)

[Lorinda]

K-9: Thanks for offering your opinion. I realized after the fact that I was unintentionally "limiting" my question to wiki elves, when it is really a question for anyone who accesses the wiki, whether they have editing privileges or not. I had made a mental note to ask you to comment, as you so often have good ideas in this regard.

I would agree that moving all the templates to one page would made sense. But I wasn't clear if you thought templates, clip-art, and macros should all go on one page (as Jake has done with his preliminary page mentioned above) or if each category (templates, clip-art, macros) should have its own page. I'd lean toward three pages, simply because of the potential for a very long page if they are combined.

Thanks for your words of praise for the wiki, despite your misgivings of wikis in general. I've done just a little looking around the OpenOffice.org wiki, and I must say it was a disappointment after working with Neo's. But then again, maybe I just didn't understand the organizational principles behind it. While I know that the current restrictions on wiki editing were not the first choice of the original Neowiki creators, I think they have proved to be a great asset to the quality of the wiki. And it has certainly eliminated the need to deal with vandalism. Of course they still have to deal with my typos and my tendency to suggest overhauls of the wiki's structure.

Lorinda

[K-9]

Lorinda,

Putting all of the templates and macros and clipart would make for a long page and they probably should be on separate pages. each would have say a subset or a sub-heading of larger template/macro/clipart/extensions main listing/heading. Does this clarify things?

edit: if the page is not large then fine ---- you guys have to make a call.




Yes, I am quite amazed at the wiki and the general demeanor of the forum here. The Council and Patrick & Ed have kept a balanced ship afloat! And a pleasant place for community participation & activity too.

As an aside - someone had grand ideas for a reworking of a linux wiki and he pushed his ideas and everyone else's were counterpointed. Result = Nothing was done. I mentioned and a few others agreed to keep the main wiki people in charge and NOT have everyone add there stuff to control the Quality of the wiki and the information. He did not agree. Someone mentioned that there was no way that people could monitor all new posts and check the reliability of info. The guy disagreed and the idea was left to the wind...

[jakeOSX]

every time i go to a wiki that is not the neowiki i get the urge to rally up oscar and smokey and fix it.

as for the page, i think (which i think is what is above) it should go something like this:

Templates, Macros and Clip Art (Oh My!)
Main page, very little information, some overviews, etc

Clip Art page:
as it is

Template and Macros
modeled after the Clip Art Page

This would let us link to the main page from the front page, but not add three links, just one.

thoughts?

[K-9]

I mentioned extensions..... Does this fit in here? just curious.

i.e. http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/node/374 as an example.....

or is there a more appropriate place for this topic?

[jakeOSX]

nono, they should be there too, i think that extensions and macros are similar enough to be on the same page? no? yes? buler?

[sardisson]

First off, the easiest thing:

* If we have pages for "Sources of" (rather than associating them with "Using"), each major type of thing needs its own "Sources of" page (Templates, Clipart/Photos, Macros/Macro-like Extensions) rather than a single "Sources of All Things for Neo" page. I doubt most people are going to be saying, "ooh, I want to find a single page that lists all sorts of things I can download for Neo," and we've already started this by breaking clipart/photos off from templates and by listing fonts separately, too.

(I don't think we should be listing every single extension/extension source with Macros; however, extensions that are macro libraries or which perform certain macro-like tasks could be listed with macros. That is, maybe we'd list "Combine Documents" and the French quotes fix, but not the PDF Import extension or the Presenter Extension.)

* Next, I do think it makes sense for us to have a single page for "Sources of Templates" which groups templates by Neo component (where possible) and then has an additional group of cross-component templates or grab-bag template collections. "Editing Default Styles and Using Templates" and each module page should replace their current templates listings with links to this new page.

* Next, I don't see any need to break up the Using Macros page at this point; it's not very long and there are very few sources.

* Using Clipart is a bit more iffy; it contains three separate groups of things: sources, how to "install" clipart, and how to use clipart (which is intermingled a bit with the previous one). To be honest, I don't use clipart much in Neo, so while I'm hoping we can collapse the size of the install and use sections, I'm not sure.

What I hope that we can do now is just tell people to add clipart to the Media Browser and drag it into their documents, and to ignore the Gallery altogether (or perhaps just keep "Using the Gallery to insert clipart into a document"). Then we could have Sources, Adding files to the Media Browser, and Adding Clipart to Documents, with the last two being pretty small. Peter, the clipart page was your bailiwick, so before we do anything to it, I'd like your comments.

* Finally, I'm most uncertain about Editing Default Styles and Using Templates; those subjects are so intertwined (although we already have a separate page on creating Calc templates, with Jacqueline's detailed explanations). It seems like we have three types of info there: how to import or use templates from other sources or locations, how to create different types of templates (languages, default styles), and all the resources links for both styles and templates.

I'd like to avoid the proliferation of pages about "Creating Templates for Foo", so maybe we should reorder the page to clearly show those three types of things? Dunno. I think we have several clear action items that we can do now and leave possible splitting of the two longer pages to another point in time....

Smokey

[sardisson]

We've certainly been fortunate that here at the NeoWiki we've always managed to have editors who are "in sync" with each other and have been able to come to a consensus in cases where there are differing opinions.

We'll debate a bit, but in the end I think we always end up with a better NeoWiki for users.

Smokey

[K-9]

Smokey - at the level that you are talking about and with the mass of info you know, you are beyond my comprehension. The elves will and should make the final decision as needed. I was just tossing in my 2 cents, so to speak. But I am in no way at your level. Just a humble basic user of Neo.

[jakeOSX]

none of us started out geniuses... (well maybe cept for ed and patrick, but even then it took time for ed's beard to grow)

there were a few times i'd read a post "how do i make it do this??!!" and i'd think, "i dunno" *opens neo. plays with it for an hour* "oh!" and reply to the post.

well, if smokey didn't beat me to it.

besides a good portion of being a part of the wiki isn't knowing what to write, but how to organize it. i think one of the things about the neowiki is that the people who write it also use it. so we lay it out so it makes sense.

or at least we try to.

[OPENSTEP]

Totally! Yeah the mad ninja skills of everyone organizing the wiki are really amazing. There are so many useless wikis out there, both for other software projects as well as just internal corporate ones. Organizing information and keeping it organized in a wiki really is a killer skill and is what really makes neowiki so phenomenal!

Offtopic, but I had to throw that out there. I share Jake's opinion w.r.t. the OLPC "wiki" for instance

ed