forum purpose

[ovvldc]

I was reading about Patrick's latest changes and a thought struck me:

Do we want to support every user who cannot find his or her way around NeoOffice?

Now, before you go thinking in the direction of closing the support forum to select groups, that is not what I have in mind.

I am more wondering if people here want to answer twice-a-week questions on how to disable autocorrecting and such. This being a volunteer forum, I could well imagine that the regulars do not bother to answer if the volume of support requests start exceeding their capacity to deal with them at peace of mind..

I know this may sounds harsh, but nobody here, including Patrick, Fran and Ed, are under legal obligation to provide such support, and may not always feel under moral obligation to do so..

It is, of course, a Very Good Thing to provide support for people with interesting question about rarely used features, odd behaviour, sneaky bugs and crashes. These help improve NeoOffice, and provide a knowledge base for other users to work from.

Over the years, a lot of infrastructure has been put in place, including 2 User Guide volumes and a large Wiki, so the frequently asked bits are pretty much covered.

So mabe I am wondering if it might become a regular thing that really basic questions are ignored or answered with a cursory STW. This might change the atmosphere on the board, but with the hordes of uneducated users that Patrick expects, I was just wondering if it is in the realm of possibilities.

Best wishes,
Oscar

[yoxi]

On the other hand, a larger user base might well lead to more peer support going on in the forum, which takes some pressure off the developers. It certainly seems to me that over the last couple of years or so, there are more people with more 'user experience' chiming in to help out the new kids on the block. Maybe it's just a question of the devs hanging back more and seeing how much gets dealt with by other visitors.

And one can hope that when people like me are more on the ball, we won't add too much to the FUD pile in the process - I've been hanging back a bit lately since my head's too full of house-moving and I seem to have been telling folk the wrong things here as a consequence .

Anyway, I'd be sorry for these forums to lose their beginner-friendly vibe - I don't want a return to the eric days...

- padmavyuha

[pluby]

[aussie149]

I agree that this could become a headache for the small band of wonderful helpers. Just off the top of my head, could we decrease the size of the problem by having one forum something like "Support FAQ's"? I am thinking of a repository where we place those queries - like how do I add/use dictionaries - that keep coming up time and again. Sort of like a forum full of "Stickies". Or would it be simpler to have a question in big bold writing "Have you (a) checked the NeoWiki? (b) downloaded the User Guides?" [I know there's a sticky about user guides etc, but I guess lots don't see it or don't respond to it]
Peter

[yoxi]

[sardisson]

[OPENSTEP]

I think for me, I fall in a similar boat. As I've been working a bit more on other things as of late, I tend to read through trinity at night, by which time most of the questions have been tackled by Fran and Patrick.

A lot of what Patrick and I have been talking about is more really finding better ways for us to manage our support time allocation in anticipation of becoming swamped with a major release. For better or for worse, yeah, I think that there will be a lot of problems that will be showing up that are already answered either on the wiki or in the user's guide. I think that a bunch of people will keep asking questions instead of taking the initiative to find the other amazing support resources everyone's put together. IT's no different than with commercial software where people call the vendors (or start bugging their company's IT guy) before reading the manuals, even if something is just on page 3

Maybe what we can do is use one of those stickies in the support forum to do a "most common answers to the most common questions" style typic.

Or perhaps something else like add a "did you search for an answer in the wiki?" line with a search box when users create a new post in the support forum? Just a couple of thoughts coming out of my tired head.

ed

[K-9]

And then there are some of the mods and more advanced users who slam people and act snobbish and condescending to the people like me who answer more basic questions and offer help in whatever way I can since I am not a power-user like they are. I filled in the gap of what sardisson was complaining about. I supported neo and Patrick and Ed (and Fran) and I was there for the more basic questions. After negative wise-ass comments this past Holiday Season to me by 3 people for posts that I was making to add info for such newbies I said freak it. and have since disappeared. They drove me away! I have seen less than stellar responses to other newbies here by these very same people. I have been watching and observing over the last couple of years. I just caught this post as a weekly or monthly visit to the forums. Hence my first comment since 12/31/08. It is sad, but it is true. I do not need static for free help. I have since freed up many hours a week to do other things in my life. Maybe some of you should have a bit more class and eloquence and patience around here. You may be the very cause that you are inundated with tech help requests and minimal people here willing to help out. I have observed a number of people that used to be here helping out slipping by the wayside over the last 6 months, and synergistically that much more over the past few months. This may be blunt, and it may hurt, but the flippant responses and holier-than-thou attitudes by some of you hoity-toity people drive people away or keep people away. A granola bar for thought. ('Food for thought'????)

Ex-member:
K-9

[Lorinda]

I've also noticed that Patrick and Fran are beating me to the punch much of the time.

As long as this isn't keeping them from other Neo tasks that the volunteers can't do, this is fine. But if we begin to get inundated, I think we should encourage them to limit themselves to answering support questions that they are pretty sure the rest of us won't have a handle on. Or at least to wait a certain amount of time (say 6-8 hours, maybe more?) before taking on the questions that they know others can answer--especially if the answer is a referral to the wiki or other resources.

I know some forum posters don't bother to search first. But I also know that searching can sometimes be challenging. Sometimes you don't know the right term for the function you are struggling with, sometimes there are too many hits and you don't know how to refine the search properly. I am very aware that as someone who has extensively edited the wiki, I can find stuff far more easily than a newbie.

I will confess that I am not nearly so familiar with the wonderful NeoOffice Guides that Peter and Jacqueline put together, so I am less likely to refer people there only because I would have to go looking to see if the topic in question is covered. (Whereas with the wiki I usually already know, and know exactly what search terms to use)

I am by nature and by profession predisposed to offer grace rather than law, so I am not comfortable with responding to a user's question with "Have you searched the wiki first?" It is my practice, however, to provide a link to the relevant wiki article, ask users to read it, and then ask them to post back if they have further questions. Jacqueline did this as well, and I see Fran taking this approach quite frequently, too.

Great minds obviously think alike, as I was going to suggest one or more new Stickies. I think the Sticky on Help Resources should be replaced with a more up to date and concise version. I'm willing to work on that one if folks would like.

I had wondered about a FAQs sticky, although worried we might find it cumbersome.

While we're at it, I wondered if we might take some ideas from OOo Community Forum's Survival Guide.

Watch out....Lorinda's organizing again

[pluby]

[James3359]

I'm glad to help as and when I can. Real Lifeâ„¢ sometimes intervenes, however. (Of course this sometimes benefits NeoOffice when displacement activities kick in.) As often as not a bit of a poke round in the User Guide or the wiki or Help finds the answer and occasionally a bit of trying things out. Further down the line is Google and querying OOo's Issue database.

I get a kick out of solving problems where I can, but I'm no expert, and know next to nothing about what's 'under the hood'. For example, there's still a wrinkle in brochure printing which I haven't completely ironed out - but my approach tends to be reactive so I may never get there.

[rays]

As one of those who has dropped below the horizon of late, I tend to echo the view of James3359 above.

If an issue rings bells with me as a problem related to my own past experience built-up over the last few years, I'll jump in if I think I can help tackle it in a meaningful way. Styles is an area where I feel I can contribute most meaningfully while I tend to steer clear of questions on Calc as I simply don't use it to any extent myself.

I have less time to make available to attend to forum questions than I once had and I've all but dropped out of bug-hunting and bugzilla. So I try to use the time I have to the best effect, knowing that I'm passing over some others' issues as I scan the RSS feed.

[OPENSTEP]

And I think that's actually the healthiest approach; everyone who wants to help really should do so in a way that makes them happy and that they think is the most useful. I've been busy recently so I've tended not to chime in unless I have something meaningful to add...usually someone else has already either directed someone towards an answer or has asked for more details to help pin down the problem

I think the attachments here will be a big help for us so we don't either need to direct people to a moderately confusing bug tracking system or start having to help people learn how to do image hosting. I know it will help me; I spend the majority of my time looking at trinity myself and switch into reviewing BZ primarily when my attention is directed towards a specific bug.

ed

[jakeOSX]

here is the way i see it.

if you don't want to answer a question, then don't.

there is nothing more likely to turn away a new user than a 'search the forum' or "RTFM" comment. trinity has never been that kind of place, i'd hate to see it become one now.

[pluby]