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NeoOffice :: View topic - Problem with styles
Problem with styles
 
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owenkc
Pure-blooded Human


Joined: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:55 am    Post subject: Problem with styles Reply with quote

I have an ongoing problem with the list of styles available in a Neo/J text document. The list only appears to show the styles I've already used in the document. If I want to use a style that is already known to the document, but hasn't been used then I have to go to the 'stylist', select it from there and use that to format a line in the document. Then, and only then, does it appear in the styles available to use.

Can someone tell me why I can't have all the styles available in my document?

Thanks

Dave Smith
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenOffice.org itself has a strange concept that you can see with the Stylist. The initial configuration tries to only display the "applicable" styles. Only after you explicitly instruct it will all of the styles be displayed, not just the applicable ones. For example, by default, "Table heading" won't appear when your'e just typing a block of text outside of a table.

Do you have the ability to verify whether this occurrs in OpenOffice.org X11? If it does we should file it as a bug/feature request against OpenOffice.org itself as it's not a Neo/J problem Smile

ed
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OPENSTEP wrote:
Do you have the ability to verify whether this occurrs in OpenOffice.org X11? If it does we should file it as a bug/feature request against OpenOffice.org itself as it's not a Neo/J problem

Yes, it does exactly the same in the X11 Ooo - only displays styles in the dropdown that already exist in the current doc. Although, inconsistently, if you select a para and choose 'Heading1' from the Stylist, you also get 'Heading' in the dropdown as a free sample.

- yoxi
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yoxi wrote:
Yes, it does exactly the same in the X11 Ooo - only displays styles in the dropdown that already exist in the current doc. Although, inconsistently, if you select a para and choose 'Heading1' from the Stylist, you also get 'Heading' in the dropdown as a free sample.


Hey, now I can finally give someone a tip Smile.

You can easily retrieve all of the other styles. At the bottom of the stylist window, 'all styles' instead of the automatic filter and it will allow you to pick every style that has been defined. After that, it will appear in the list in the toolbar.

I found it quite user friendly, actually. Keeps the toolbar list uncluttered, unlike Word, which tends to have a horribly long list of styles that make no sense (and which Word so 'helpfully' defined for you).

I suspect the reason why Heading also appears if you choose Heading 1 is that Heading one inherits most of its properties from Heading. Therefore, once you select Heading 1, Heading also becomes 'used.' The styles work like a tree and if you pick one outer branch, the branches leading from it up to the trunk will be activated as well.

Hope this helps.

Good luck,
Oscar
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yoxi
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Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovvldc wrote:
You can easily retrieve all of the other styles. At the bottom of the stylist window, 'all styles' instead of the automatic filter and it will allow you to pick every style that has been defined. After that, it will appear in the list in the toolbar.

Thanks for the tip (and the 'hierarchy of styles' explanation too), but this makes me realise that the issue is that I (and maybe other users) misunderstood what the Apply Style dropdown in the toolbar is actually *for*.

What I was *expecting* it to do was to show me a whole list of available styles from which to choose one, in much the same manner as the Font Name dropdown - since they sit next to each other on the toolbar, it would seem logical that they behave the same, and it's just a shortcut to the main Styles list. But what this dropdown is offering is the list of Styles that are *already in use* in the current doc.

This initially annoyed me, as it seemed like a bug - until I discovered that in NeoJ/X11 Ooo, the combo Cmd-F11/Ctrl-F11 (respectively) works fine to pop up the Styles Catalog, from which to choose the appropriate new style. Then the Apply Style dropdown becomes a useful tool to tell me which styles I've already used in the doc so that I can be consistent - and I can quickly reselect those styles from the toolbar there.

You can alternatively use F11 (if that isn't set on Exposé!) to pop up the Styles Palette, which is less cluttered than the Styles Catalog, but which floats on the desktop after use (unlike the Catalog) until closed.

There is a bug in the NeoJ version of the Apply Style dropdown, though. In X11 Ooo, if I open an existing Writer doc that has no styles set in it, there is (sometimes but not always!) an item in the initial Apply Style dropdown (before I've chosen any additional styles) called 'Text Body', which applies the default opening font/size as set in Tools|Options.

In NeoJ (and X11 Ooo), when I drop down the list initially, there's a blank line below 'Default'. But in NeoJ, if I click on that blank line, it actually chooses the default opening font/size - i.e. 'Text Body' is there but being displayed as a blank.

This doesn't happen in new docs - the blank line is still there, but nothing happens when I click on it. It only seems to happen when re-opening existing styleless docs.

- yoxi
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naramsin
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Joined: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be worth mentioning Max_Barel's excellent tip about the Style Palette--if you Apple-double-click (AKA Command-double-click) on the grey frame of the palette, it becomes anchored to the main window. I find it much more convenient to display "All Styles" and have a nice pop-out "drawer" or "toolbox" that doesn't float around and lets me easily scroll to the style I want.

Once you've done this, you have a nice button at the top of the style window that you use to close and open the window. This is similar to the tools in Nisus, as well as the "Drawer" in Preview or the "Show Mailboxes" feature of Mail. If you find you don't like this, you can click the "floating" button (which has a thumbtack button on it) to detach the style palette again. Check out the original post ""Docking" palettes in Neo/J 1.1" under "trinity.neooffice.org Forum Index -> NeoOffice/J Support". Or perhaps the following link will work:
<http://trinity.neooffice.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=695>

As I see it, once Patrick and Ed are able to aquify NeoOJ, having the style palette this way will make it even MORE Mac-like.

naramsin
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

naramsin wrote:
if you Apple-double-click (AKA Command-double-click) on the grey frame of the palette, it becomes anchored to the main window ... you can click the "floating" button (which has a thumbtack button on it) to detach the style palette again.

That's a useful tip - I didn't catch it the first time it came around.

For clarity, though, clicking on the thumbtack button in docked mode doesn't undock the palette back to its completely floating state again (to do that, you need to give it focus and then cmd-dbl-click on its grey frame again).

When the palette is in docked mode, what that thumbtack button does is to switch the docked palette between 'docked floating' and 'docked stick' mode. 'Docked floating' mode draws the palette on top of the existing document area. 'Docked stick' mode pushes the document area over to the right of the palette (so you can still see all of the doc content, but it shrinks to fit the narrower space, so you have to reset the zoom %age).

Either way, F11 slides the drawer in/out, which is useful for the mouse-reluctant typists among us (me, me!)

I don't find this docking to be very practical, though, for 2 reasons - firstly, you can only get it to dock to the left - I'd prefer it on the right; secondly, on my 400MHz tibook, it is noticeably slower than using the palette in completely 'floating' mode, because in either docked mode, NeoJ has to redraw the doc area as well as drawing the palette (even in 'docked floating' mode, the doc display shifts a little up and to the right when you F11 to display the palette - something to do with the palette's borders, I guess). **update - does this shift in X11 too - reported it to IZ.**

Still, in the process of fiddling around with these options, I've discovered that in fully-floating mode, F11 makes the Style palette disappear as well as appear. Better yet, pop it up with F11, use the up/down keys to select the right style, hit Enter and the style is applied AND the palette disappears. Just what I always wanted it to do, and without any mouse activity required at all. Smashing, as we say in England...

- yoxi


Last edited by yoxi on Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Max_Barel
Oracle


Joined: May 31, 2003
Posts: 219
Location: French Alps

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:26 am    Post subject: RTFM and STFW! Reply with quote

yoxi wrote:
- firstly, you can only get it to dock to the left - I'd prefer it on the right

Nope!
As I also wrote in several posts, command-dragging the Stylist's frame (and Navigator) allows to dock it wherever you want on the window. You can even stack the two in a single column, saving window space. That' my favorite layout and it does not ask for frequent redraw.

Please guys, RTFM and STFW!

Max
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naramsin
Sentinel


Joined: Mar 13, 2004
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yoxi,

Thanks for correcting my post--you're right that the "thumbtack"button doesn't work as I described. One can, however, move the docked palette to the right. Just hold down "Command" and dragging the window to the right of the main window. You have to use the thin edge of the frame (the far-left edge if it is docked on the left, or the bottom frame around the drop-down menu). And I guess it would be slower on some machines--having just migrated from a Rev-A iBook to a new G4 iBook I can sympathize! I'm just an anti-floating palettes kind of person I guess.

The F11 key is tricky with the default Entourage setup. I remapped the F11 "Stylist On/Off" button as "Command T" so it is uniform with the Show Drawer command of Preview and the Show Fonts command of TextEdit.

naramsin
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: RTFM and STFW! Reply with quote

Max_Barel wrote:
As I also wrote in several posts, command-dragging the Stylist's frame (and Navigator) allows to dock it wherever you want on the window. You can even stack the two in a single column, saving window space. That' my favorite layout and it does not ask for frequent redraw.

Please guys, RTFM and STFW!

Max

My humble apologies Smile - but fair do's, Max, you can't expect us relative newbies to read *every* past posting, what with each forum page currently taking around 50-60 secs to reach England! Please go easy on the F's...

I assume that what you wrote about 'frequent redraw' means that you just leave the style list/navigator open all the time? I've got bad eyes, so I like to keep my doc onscreen as uncluttered as possible, generally. I'm still happiest just popping up the floating palette as needed, but thanks for straightening me out about the docking options, and thanks in advance for your patience if I ever make you have to repeat yourself again... Very Happy

- yoxi
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