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NeoOffice :: View topic - GetNeo.com (+you can help too)
GetNeo.com (+you can help too)
 
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GetNeo
Red Pill


Joined: Aug 30, 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added a prompt to donate before downloading but I did it in a way I think is still very user-friendly. I also reduced clutter by hiding the torrent download.

These changes have been applied only to the English version for now. I would like to get some feedback before I apply them to the other language versions.
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like this prompt system! Unobtrusive but very clear.

Well done,
Oscar

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"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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Samwise
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 2315
Location: Montpellier, France

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my 2 cents:

Quote:
Without donations from our users, NeoOffice would not exist.


Since your site isn't directly affiliated with NeoOffice, I would suggest dropping "our" from that sentence.
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sardisson
Town Crier
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Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Samwise about the "our".

I also wonder how the flow will be when someone clicks "Yes" on donate; theu end up on the NeoOffice website to make a donation (yay!) but there's no way for them to get back to GetNeo for the download.

I sort-of expected clicking "Yes" would start the download and then send me to the NeoOffice website, or to open the NeoOffice website in a new tab/window while the download started in the original (GetNeo) tab/window, or something like that.

Smokey

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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11907
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sardisson wrote:
I also wonder how the flow will be when someone clicks "Yes" on donate; theu end up on the NeoOffice website to make a donation (yay!) but there's no way for them to get back to GetNeo for the download.


Smokey is correct that there will be no way to get back. PayPal's site has elaborate code to provide this feature for our site and I don't plan on replicating PayPal's features.

Also, before anyone gets the idea that they can just copy the PayPal payment button to the GetNeo site, please don't. PayPal will notice that the referring site does not match the domain of our account and I can only imagine that the number of disputed or investigated transactions that we have to deal with would rise sharply.

I think everyone here needs to take a step back and ask yourselves what you are trying to do. From what I gather, there is a sense that the neooffice.org pages are too difficult for some people to navigate through so you want to make it easier for such people to download NeoOffice.

Realistically, what do you expect will happen if you successfully attract 50,000 users that in the past gave up on downloading NeoOffice? I know what I expect: hundreds of users overwhelming our forum with very basic questions on how to use a word processor, spreadsheet, or presentation application.

I highly doubt that handful of people that donate from this type of user will change our financial situation much but it definitely would overwhelm Fran and I even more than we current are overwhelmed.

So, here is what I have to say on this whole topic: if you are going to make an NeoOffice download site like Softpedia already does, then I strongly suggest that you give the complete package and provide support for your users.

Everyone loves to do the download and web design end because, quite frankly, it is the easiest and cheapest part of the NeoOffice operation. But all that does is push a bunch of non-donors who need lots of support or have unrealistic expectations of what NeoOffice can and cannot do onto us, you are doing us no favors.

Providing support for your own downloaders, on the other hand, definitely would earn my respect as it shows that you are taking responsibility for the invetible support demand that you will create.

Patrick
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what Patrick is trying to say.

However, I still like GetNeo's idea to provide a website that has less clutter. Like it or not, NeoOffice is attractive increasingly less tech-savvy people. The NeoOffice website claims half a million users..

So I am not quite as worried about the support requests (probably because they do not all land on my plate), and I do see potential for higher donations.

We have to make two things clear at all times: The NeoOffice is free but that it does cost money, and that it is similar to MS Office but not exactly the same.

Other than that, I am all for making access to NeoOffice and the existing support documents (Manual, Wiki) as obvious as possible, while having some barrier to personal support.

If Patrick doesn't feel ready to endorse the GetNeo website, I would still like to see some of the good things about it make it into the NeoOffice website.

Maybe as a potential double entry point: a GetNeo website that feeds directly towards the downloads and donations pages, and a general Neo website, geared to existing users, that gives more options, and puts the features, Wiki and the manual on top.

Best wishes,
Oscar

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"I think it would be a good idea!"
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11907
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovvldc wrote:
If Patrick doesn't feel ready to endorse the GetNeo website, I would still like to see some of the good things about it make it into the NeoOffice website.


Don't worry about my endorsement. Softpedia and other sites already do what GetNeo.com is trying to do. In my last post I was trying to make that point that targetting reluctant or overwhelmed potential users is likely to create demand for support services that we are not going to be able to provide.

I was trying to hold off on the discussion about how our site will likely change to be a mostly donor's support site. Of course, we will not restrict downloads or reading any of our site and we will definitely leave a forum open to non-donors to report crashing and hanging bugs as evaluating those is important whethere or not it is a donor reporting the bug. But, realistically, the free support to anyone model has only barely worked in the best of times and it definitely has not been paying the bills in the last year.

So, very soon you will start see our site focussed almost entirely towards donors' support requests. The first step of this process already occurred when we added priority support for donors on our support page. The next step will be to explicitly tell users that there is no support for non-donors on the download page.

Patrick
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GetNeo
Red Pill


Joined: Aug 30, 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samwise wrote:
Since your site isn't directly affiliated with NeoOffice, I would suggest dropping "our" from that sentence.

Whoops! Fixed.

sardisson wrote:
I also wonder how the flow will be when someone clicks "Yes" on donate; theu end up on the NeoOffice website to make a donation (yay!) but there's no way for them to get back to GetNeo for the download.

I sort-of expected clicking "Yes" would start the download and then send me to the NeoOffice website, or to open the NeoOffice website in a new tab/window while the download started in the original (GetNeo) tab/window, or something like that.

Fixed.

pluby wrote:
Providing support for your own downloaders, on the other hand, definitely would earn my respect as it shows that you are taking responsibility for the invetible support demand that you will create.

Hmmm... I will have to seriously think about these support issues.

I think it's only fair donors get priority support. In fact, I don't understand how non-donors can even expect there's a whole support department just waiting for their call 24/7. Confused
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djpimley
The Anomaly
(earlier version)


Joined: Jun 11, 2006
Posts: 481
Location: Great Britain

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pluby wrote:
targetting reluctant or overwhelmed potential users is likely to create demand for support services [...] very soon you will start see our site focussed almost entirely towards donors' support requests.

If donation-based support becomes the future model (and an entirely reasonable one) then does it matter whether users download from getneo.com or neooffice.org? If they donate to you, they get support from you; if not, they don't.

GetNeo.com doesn't necessarily appeal only to very inexperienced users needing an innordinate amount of help. The NeoOffice web pages are pretty stark and fearsome compared to the sleek world of Web 2.0 and perhaps it discourages those who are technically proficient but faint-hearted. I think "overwhelmed" users will simply buy what Apple tells them to buy: iWork. Wink
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11907
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GetNeo wrote:
I think it's only fair donors get priority support. In fact, I don't understand how non-donors can even expect there's a whole support department just waiting for their call 24/7. Confused


To be fair, I don't think it is a feeling entitlement for most users. Sure, there are a few that have that feeling, but my sense is that people just don't understand the burden that their support requests cause. I would assume that most people assume there is no harm in asking.

Unfortunately, unless you have actually operated a support site, the difficulties in handling more than a few users just are not obvious. So, they do what seems the most natural thing to do: post a question.

Patrick
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And posting a question is fair enough. I can, however see a time in the immediate future when Patrick/Fran/Ed only answer those for donors.

But I am wondering about the rest of the volunteers. I assume we still get to answer to whomever we want Smile. Or is posting in the support forum itself to be restricted to donors? Or one forum for everyone and another for donors?

Just wondering out loud here... And still appreciative of GetNeo's effort.

Update: some of this was answered already.

Best wishes,
Oz

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"What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11907
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovvldc wrote:
Update: some of this was answered already.


For those of you who want to skip to the detailed plans in that forum topic, you can go directly to my post here.

Patrick
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