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NeoOffice :: View topic - possible problem with new posting guidelines...
possible problem with new posting guidelines...
 
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K-9
The Merovingian


Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 571
Location: U.S.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: possible problem with new posting guidelines... Reply with quote

not posting this for a mass of negative postings on this topic; but more for concern:

If people have not paid the $25 yearly, then they cannot offer help. This will cut down on the non-paid tech support that Trinity needs desperately. I see this as a possible problem. Maybe others do not.

I also wish that maybe there could be some cumulative level of donation that once it is reached that account active status can remain as active for a decent amount of time after the fact.

I also realize that this is Patrick's baby and he can do whatever he wishes; but maybe a redrawing of certain requirements or variable would be helpful all the way around. Just my 2 cents.

sorry for the lack of eloquence in this post. just a quick post on a hectic day.

Norman
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11847
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: possible problem with new posting guidelines... Reply with quote

K-9 wrote:
If people have not paid the $25 yearly, then they cannot offer help. This will cut down on the non-paid tech support that Trinity needs desperately. I see this as a possible problem. Maybe others do not.


Yes, it may. But volunteer tech support has never fully covered all of the support load. So we may lose some volunteer tech support, but with this change Fran and I lose far more tech support work than we lose from our volunteers. The difference is what we need for engineering.

K-9 wrote:
I also wish that maybe there could be some cumulative level of donation that once it is reached that account active status can remain as active for a decent amount of time after the fact.


That isn't a bad idea. But right now I am buried with fixing bugs that have arisen from Apple's Snow Leopard release. This is why the current change had to happen: I had to free up time for engineering work and I will need that time probably well after the free NeoOffice 3.0.1 release on 27 October 2009.

Patrick
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps stars could be lost one per year, instead of all at once?
_________________
"What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11847
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovvldc wrote:
Perhaps stars could be lost one per year, instead of all at once?


No. What you are essentially suggesting is that I promise we will continue running NeoOffice for N number years no matter what our financial position is. We cannot make such a promise and we never will as the financial position of NeoOffice has always been to scrape by on whatever donations roll in.

Don't forget that Fran and I are by a huge margin the largest NeoOffice donors to date. It is easy to forget that we have sunken at least US$100,000 (and maybe more) into making NeoOffice what it is today.

Patrick
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K-9
The Merovingian


Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 571
Location: U.S.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand. No ill intentions I promise! You know all of the bugs and glitches re: snow leopard. I am on tiger yet and 2.5 so all is well for me.

I DO apologize if I ticked you off or anything like that. Just was thinking about the possible tech resources lost this way - that is all.


hope we are cool!
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi


Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pluby wrote:
No. What you are essentially suggesting is that I promise we will continue running NeoOffice for N number years no matter what our financial position is. We cannot make such a promise and we never will as the financial position of NeoOffice has always been to scrape by on whatever donations roll in.


I think we are still operating under different paradigms: Me in one that has you as a part of the support drive, and one that can disappear for a few months (and possibly forever at some point). You in one where you provide all support at NeoOffice.org.

Regardless of the actual situation, I am not trying to pressure you into binding yourself. In fact, I would suggest taking a very long Xmas vacation when the worst of the 3.0.1 and Snow Leopard storm is over Smile. And I will try to adjust to the rebooted reality on Trinity.

In support of my suggestion, I think the support requests from people who have donated more than a year ago are most likely to be relevant and interesting ones because they already have experience in using NeoOffice. But it remains your call.

_________________
"What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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K-9
The Merovingian


Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 571
Location: U.S.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine was not just support requests but offering tech when I am able to due to my limited knowledge of Neo.

Smile
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gbh
Councilperson


Joined: Jul 28, 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully support your reasons. $25 is not much to ask to support a great program, far better than OpenOffice. We use it every day at work and would never go back to MS Office. I hope more users will donate. It is small in the scheme of things, particularly for those that use this program often.
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K-9
The Merovingian


Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 571
Location: U.S.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not against the $25 donation. That is fine... I am worried about driving away or eliminating people that are helpful here just because they do not pay the $. When you are strapped for time and tech support - that seems to be eliminating possible help sources. I am addressing that issue as opposed to the donation for submitting tech question for support/help. That is legit if needed.

I will let it go at that. Just wanted to clarify this so it does not appear that i am against the donation or a donation required for submitting tech support questions. I am only focusing on the actul support helpers themselves that cannot post help comments because they have not donated $25.

I just did yesterday - so i do practice what i preach; but this has been a terrible year business-wise, medically for my wife and me, and generally for my family. But if i did not , then after 10/1/09 I would be in a no post situation myself. I donated a lot last year and a bit before but did it again yesterday. Many of the tech questions lately are beyond my level of expertise; but if they were easy for me to answer I would not be able to help out due to the yearly donation being up and void.

Thanks.
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11847
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K-9 wrote:
I am not against the $25 donation. That is fine... I am worried about driving away or eliminating people that are helpful here just because they do not pay the $. When you are strapped for time and tech support - that seems to be eliminating possible help sources. I am addressing that issue as opposed to the donation for submitting tech question for support/help. That is legit if needed.


Since you keep bringing this up, I need to ask where all of these unpaid technical support people have been? Lorinda and James3359 have been here helping us on a near daily basis and they are moderators (duly earned through their huge support efforts) but all others volunteers' support help has been very thin and sporadic.

While thin and sporadic support is something that we might lose, the amount of support load that we will also lose is many, many times the amount of support we got from non-moderators.

Patrick
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K-9
The Merovingian


Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 571
Location: U.S.

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry - I have seen a lesser amount of help the last year too. I just bring up that as opposed to the people that want free tech help for nothing re: donation. I brought it up to clarify my point. That is all.


i have been around here but as I said my knowledge is not where these other people's are re: base, and other apps. So I cannot offer any help whatsoever.

In the past i have tried to help daily. But there were a few comments by a couple of mods/people that i felt was unfair. so I stayed away for a while. then life went down the tubes so i have been away for other reasons. However, I have tried to participate again; but my knowledge is basic - I use Neo for my humble needs. Always wanted to do more but many other things need my attention - so I stay where I am re: neo.

I will refrain from any further comments re; this thread. I was thinking of the misc. help that could be and has been offered... that is all.

My deepest apologies.
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OPENSTEP
The One
The One


Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, for me I've found that the User Guide, translation, and wiki are really amazing areas where volunteers really have helped the entire support effort. I find myself many times referring people to either a wiki article or to the user guide, and I find myself searching them when I myself have a problem. It's important to realize how useful they are.

The wiki and user guide were created by and are maintained almost completely by our support volunteers; that is one of the big reasons why Patrick, Fran and I made sure to leave that forum open to anyone so all of the people who are working on them will always have an area to collaborate Smile Although I may not thank them for their efforts frequently enough, without all the work the "wiki elves" do I'm certain our support load would be much higher than what it is.

ed
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yoxi
Cipher


Joined: Sep 07, 2004
Posts: 1799
Location: Dawlish, Devon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, a lot of the time it's possible to refer people back to old threads or the wiki or whatever. Though I often find it's easier to type an answer again than it is to find the specific thread in which a question was answered earlier. There's a lot of good stuff in here.

I've not been on the case much lately myself, partly due to a life crisis and new job, but also because my personal knowledge-base isn't up to the job of answering a lot of the queries that come up these days - base, CTL/fonts, stuff like that. When I'm around, I try to field the easy ones to save you smartypantses the trouble Smile.

But the forum has generally seemed quieter recently (even before the donation requirement to post) than it used to be anyway. And perhaps that's because some people are coming here for help, and then finding it without having to ask. That's a statistic it's impossible to quantify, but with all the info that's available here, I suspect that's the case.
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pluby
The Architect
The Architect


Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11847
Location: California, USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yoxi wrote:
But the forum has generally seemed quieter recently (even before the donation requirement to post) than it used to be anyway. And perhaps that's because some people are coming here for help, and then finding it without having to ask. That's a statistic it's impossible to quantify, but with all the info that's available here, I suspect that's the case.


Support load over the last few years has been cyclical. Unless I put out a release, August is always dead as it seems half of Europe goes on vacation during that time. However, the support load slowly rises when school is back in session and usually sometime in October it jumps upward. There is a reason that we made this change now instead of on the 27 October 2009 release date: I wanted to have this in place before the combined support load of the "first midterm paper due" support load and the "new free release out" load would have hit us back to back in October and November.

Patrick
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K-9
The Merovingian


Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 571
Location: U.S.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok - I broke my own rule/statement about a comment.

basically the crux of this issue is that in order to be able to reply to/give so-called free tech support here the helper has to pay the minimum $25 to be able to have that right/honor to do that. That seems like you are penalizing the free techies who are trying to help. Now maybe do you see what i mean?

Sorry for opening a can of worms. I paid the other day to be able to help as needed. I generally do not have many questions for support. That kind of seems half ass backwards from a very realistic perspective.

In a real world sense - why should I or anyone PAY $ to help out? see another perspective?

I have contributed in the past because i believe in the project - not because i had to to contribute or be part of this project. sort of makes me feel like I was had when you see it in these terms. and NO that is not where the original question was coming from but sort of evolved into this realization from the comments in this thread.

Hmmmm? Feel sort of scammed.... with all due RESPECT to YOU!
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