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NeoOffice :: View topic - Italics not showing in some fonts in text docs
Italics not showing in some fonts in text docs
 
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natpoor
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Joined: Feb 17, 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:31 am    Post subject: Italics not showing in some fonts in text docs Reply with quote

Hi, I noticed my italicized words (like book titles) that used to be showing up in italics (wysiwyg) aren't appearing that way anymore in the file, but the NeoOffice app says they are in italics (because the toolbar button for I highlights). If I make a new text doc, and then make some text italic, it doesn't change appearance (but bold and underline work).

I searched the forums and didn't see anything recent about this, I hope I didn't miss an existing thread. I have an Intel Mac, with NeoOffice 3.2 Patch 5, and OSX 10.7 -- I don't know if this problem happened due to 10.7, or a new NeOffice patch, or maybe something else -- I wasn't paying that much attention, and I mostly use italics in bibliographies.

I just remembered a friend's .doc file (orig a docx), that had italics in it that were still there -- she was using Calibri font, and I just checked and can make things italic in her doc with the Calibri font. Normally I use Times/Times New Roman. Hmm some fonts change (like Calibri, which I don't see in my font list, eh?, and in Courier and Helvetica it works...), but some don't. I have no idea. "Times Roman" will change, "Times New Roman" won't. Weird! I tried restarting NeoOffice and my Mac, still happens.
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pluby
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you mention that the font is set to the Calibri font, my theory is that you do not have Microsoft Office on your machine. Here is what I think is happening: Calibri is a font that is bundled with Microsoft Office and if you don't have Microsoft Office, you don't have the Calibri font.

So, when NeoOffice opens a document and the requested font is Calibri, NeoOffice tries to find a close substitute font. What I suspect is that NeoOffice is substituting a font that has no italic style (not all fonts have bold or italic styles).

To test my theory, can you try changing a part of your document that uses Calibri to Times New Roman? Does the text change to italic?

Patrick
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natpoor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I did that -- I opened the doc with Calibri, italicized one word (which worked), then made that word Times New Roman and the wysiwyg italic appearance went away.

The thing is this missing italics (sounds like an Encyclopedia Brown mystery....) happens in all the docs I've checked, such as brand-new ones to check this problem, and an older doc where I have italics in the bibliography -- in this older doc, the italics used to show correctly, but now they don't (this is where I noticed the problem).
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natpoor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be clear, the Calibri font DOES italicize correctly, while Times New Roman used to but does not anymore. (Indeed I do not have MS Office on this machine.)
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pluby
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you attach a sample document that has a small amount of text that has this problem? Also, can you tell us which version of Mac OS X are you using?

You can attach a sample file using the steps in this forum post.

Patrick
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natpoor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I misunderstood what you wanted -- if I go into the doc with Calibri and change one normal word into Times New Roman, it changes to normal Times New Roman (not italic, but it wasn't italic to begin with). Calibri isn't really the issue since I never use it, it's just illustrative of the problem I think.
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pluby
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might also be misunderstanding the problem. Is the problem only occurring where the font is set to both Calibri and italic?

Patrick
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natpoor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will make a little doc with the problem and post it. I am using Mac OS X Lion 10.7 (11A511). (Maybe it's a local problem, some font issue or setting/prefs file, but I am not a Unix wizard so am only vaguely aware of these things.)

Oh let me see if this happens in, say, TextEdit. (I should have thought of that earlier.) Times New Roman does visually change to italics when I set a word to italics in TNR in TextEdit, so... well that's another data point. I'll go make and post a sample doc now.
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pluby
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your approach is perfect. I have all versions of Mac OS X from 10.4 through 10.7 so I can reboot in 10.7, run Microsoft Office to ensure that the Calibri font is installed, and then try to reproduce the problem using your sample document.

Note: it may take me up to 24 hours to reply after you post your sample document, but that is only because I am trying to reproduce your bug and determine what is causing it.

Patrick
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natpoor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pluby wrote:
I might also be misunderstanding the problem. Is the problem only occurring where the font is set to both Calibri and italic?

Patrick


Ah, no, Calibri isn't really the problem since I don't use it ever. Calibri plus italics works fine. Times New Roman plus italics used to work fine, and now it doesn't wysiwyg on-screen as italics anymore although the "I" button ("toggle italics" in the toolbar) will highlight. (I haven't tried printing.) It's like the app knows if text should be in italics, but only wysiwygs it in some fonts but not others, and this is new behavior for the app. Calibri and Helvetica work, but Times New Roman doesn't.
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natpoor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pluby wrote:
Your approach is perfect. I have all versions of Mac OS X from 10.4 through 10.7 so I can reboot in 10.7, run Microsoft Office to ensure that the Calibri font is installed, and then try to reproduce the problem using your sample document.

Note: it may take me up to 24 hours to reply after you post your sample document, but that is only because I am trying to reproduce your bug and determine what is causing it.

Patrick


No worries! If it is a local problem on my machine it will be difficult/impossible to figure out. Don't worry about Calibri, that was just an example, I don't use the font. I had noticed that my Times/Times New Roman doc had "lost" its italics (visually, but the "italics" button still highlighted in book titles where I know I had made italics), and then in the middle of my first post I realized that I had just the other day seen italics, and it was in my friend's doc where she uses Calibri. Since I only use T/TNR, Calibri was the first thing that came to mind. Helvetica works ok too.

(Ok I think I did the attachment correctly...)
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sardisson
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In addition to supplying Patrick with a sample document, here are some other things to check on your end:

1) Is Times New Roman installed and active (check with the Font Book application; if it's disabled, a grey "Off" will appear to the right of the font name)?

2) In Font Book, does it show Times New Roman as having an Italic face (expand the disclosure triangle next to the font name)?

3) Are there duplicate versions of TNR installed (this is indicated by a little grey dot to the right of the font name)?

Note: I'm assuming that the UI of Font Book is reasonably similar in 10.7 as in 10.5 where I am; hopefully it's close enough that you'll find the right things.

Edit: FWIW, your document looks correct on my Mac on 3.2.1 Beta/10.5.8, so it's either 10.7-specific or local to your Mac.

Smokey

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pluby
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Smokey's post may be the next best area to troubleshoot as I see the second line in your sample document as Italic on Mac OS X 10.7.

If you launch the /Applications/Font Book application, find the Times New Roman font and expand it, do you see and "bullet" symbols or other characters next to the Italic variant of that font?

Patrick
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natpoor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sardisson wrote:
In addition to supplying Patrick with a sample document, here are some other things to check on your end:

1) Is Times New Roman installed and active (check with the Font Book application; if it's disabled, a grey "Off" will appear to the right of the font name)?

I have never used Font Book, but it looks ok. No "Off" to be seen.

sardisson wrote:

2) In Font Book, does it show Times New Roman as having an Italic face (expand the disclosure triangle next to the font name)?

It does, but aha! Everything is listed twice! (Your next q.)

sardisson wrote:

3) Are there duplicate versions of TNR installed (this is indicated by a little grey dot to the right of the font name)?

Well yes and no... Yes, each of the four types (regular, italic, bold, bold italic) is indeed listed twice. However, unlike a few of the other fonts, Font Book is not flagging this as duplicate (this version of Font Book uses the yellow triangle with an exclamation point). Weird. The flagged ones can be "auto-resolved" (or something like that). Should I manually delete the duplicates for TNR?


sardisson wrote:

Note: I'm assuming that the UI of Font Book is reasonably similar in 10.7 as in 10.5 where I am; hopefully it's close enough that you'll find the right things.

Edit: FWIW, your document looks correct on my Mac on 3.2.1 Beta/10.5.8, so it's either 10.7-specific or local to your Mac.

Smokey


Maybe... upgrading to 10.7 made some duplicate font problem? (But it works ok in Text Edit... Well I don't know much about fonts behind the scenes -- maybe 10.7 installed a 10.7 version of TNR, and Text Edit knows about it since TE is 10.7 I assume, but older apps are confused by the two versions? I just made that up, it may have no technical relevance.)

I will try some manual deletion of the duplicates. (The days of font suitcases, I recall them vaguely...) I didn't even know Font Book existed, this is good! Good thinking, thanks! (Will it work...)
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natpoor
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FIXED! You are awesome.

So, I disabled the second of each of the duplicate TNR fonts, re-started NeoOffice, and my italics were back!

I noticed a few other fonts had duplicates which were flagged (I did not go through and open each to see if there are unflagged duplicates). Verdana, a regular Apple font, was flagged, and it had two of each of the four basic types, so I auto-resolved it. Font Book turned off the second of each of the types, so I did that manually for Times New Roman. Bingo!

I would guess it was a problem with the 10.7 installer but then it should happen consistently (maybe) under 10.7, which it didn't (since you all tested that). I have no idea. But I am really glad you fixed it, and I now know about Font Book and hopefully can fix such things on my own if they happen again.

Thanks! I am sorry to have wasted your time on a non-Neo Office problem (but why didn't it happen in Text Edit, hmm weird), but at the same time I am glad it is not a bug in Neo Office.
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