Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 561 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:49 am Post subject: NeoOffice 3.4.1 hanging when idle in OS X 10.10.1
I've upgraded and shuffled my Macs around at work and my NeoOffice based customer database now runs on a Mac mini with OS X 10.10.1 installed.
It is working fine, I got sent to the right Java installer when I first opened the database, and it all seems to work fine, except when it's been left alone for a while, when NeoOffice appears to hang and needs to be Force Quit.
I've checked that there are no Font problems on this machine.
The hang has happened a few times now and occurs when there is one form open and the machine has been idle and asleep for a time. I'll try to pin down some more specific steps to reproduce if I can. I could attach the .odb file if it would help, but I'd need a little time to produce some dummy data as the real database contains customer records.
I took a sample before I quit it one time which is attached.
I realise NeoOffice 3.4.1 is nearing the end of its life, so if it is unfixable, I can switch to LibreOffice or OpenOffice, albeit reluctantly.
Thank you for the sample. It is hard to tell from the sample, but I don't think this bug is due to Java. Instead, it appears that the hang is occurring when drawing native OS X table headers.
Native table headers are drawn in a few places (the attached screen snapshot shows them in the table editing window). Do you remember which type of database windows you had open when NeoOffice hung? If not, can you grab a screen snapshot of NeoOffice when it hangs next?
amayze wrote:
I realise NeoOffice 3.4.1 is nearing the end of its life, so if it is unfixable, I can switch to LibreOffice or OpenOffice, albeit reluctantly.
While database data can be moved, if you use Base's report engine you can't escape the need for Java so I understand your need for a backup plan.
It is no secret that Apple does not like Java anymore so if you use Base's reporting engine my recommendation is to test out OpenOffice now, not later. Be sure to install the Oracle Report Builder extension so that OpenOffice can run your Base database reports.
My other recommendation is that you may want to hold back on upgrading to future new OS X releases until after you are sure that Java actually works. Every new OS X release breaks something in NeoOffice, OpenOffice, and LibreOffice and since your work depends on a technology that Apple no longer likes, I would recommend being very cautious about upgrading to a new OS X release.
Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 561 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:06 am Post subject:
Yes, I am aware of Apple's dislike of Java, and I had done some reasonably extensive testing on another machine before I jumped to OS X 10.10, but evidently I missed this problem!
Here's a screen shot of the open window. I think from your description it does include native table headers.
I can live with the hanging. The underlying database is not affected and I'm not losing data, it's just the interface that is hanging, so after a Force Quit there is no need to recover the .odb file as it never changes. I just re-open the original file and carry on.
It is a pain, but it's less of a problem than I had keeping my old Intel Core Duo iMac with OS X 10.6.8 on it working alongside a much newer iMac running OS X 10.9.x!
I will definitely look at this and post a test patch for you to try in the next day or two. At this point, it seems that Apple changed something in their NSTableView class that causes an infinite loop on OS X 10.10.
amayze wrote:
Yes, I am aware of Apple's dislike of Java, and I had done some reasonably extensive testing on another machine before I jumped to OS X 10.10, but evidently I missed this problem!
I didn't mean to imply that you didn't do enough testing. I only wanted to pass on what has worked for me: give yourself a way to rollback to the the last working OS X release.
Personally, I hate the endless upgrade cycle that Apple pushes so for several years now I have been splitting my machine's disk into multiple volumes, installing new OS X releases on separate volumes, and then importing my user from the old volume. The upside is that I can then reboot back into the old OS X volume by pressing the Option key while booting. The downside is that it uses up a lot more disk.
I can't say my approach will work for everyone. I am a bit paranoid about losing data so my approach (and the number of backups I make and store offsite) is probably overkill for most people. I just know that I sleep better at night knowing that I've got some nice fallback options.
Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 561 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject:
pluby wrote:
I will definitely look at this and post a test patch for you to try in the next day or two. At this point, it seems that Apple changed something in their NSTableView class that causes an infinite loop on OS X 10.10.
Thanks.
amayze wrote:
Yes, I am aware of Apple's dislike of Java, and I had done some reasonably extensive testing on another machine before I jumped to OS X 10.10, but evidently I missed this problem!
pluby wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that you didn't do enough testing. I only wanted to pass on what has worked for me: give yourself a way to rollback to the the last working OS X release.
No offence taken. There should've been a smiley after the exclamation mark!
pluby wrote:
Personally, I hate the endless upgrade cycle that Apple pushes so for several years now I have been splitting my machine's disk into multiple volumes, installing new OS X releases on separate volumes, and then importing my user from the old volume.
Me too! (The hating endless upgrades bit). But since I have a credit card machine sitting on the same network as my Macs I am obliged by my merchant services provider to use a version of the OS that is still supported with security updates from Apple. However I can never upgrade anything until my accounts software provider officially sanctions their software for the new OS. So given that OS X 10.10 didn't break the accounts software I thought I'd take the opportunity to update to 10.10 and hopefully be able to stay there for a couple of years!
pluby wrote:
I can't say my approach will work for everyone.
You can't ever have too many backups. I've only just recently had to recover from a HD failure on my main work iMac. Thankfully TimeMachine backups to a RAID array on a local NAS and having critical data also backed up on a cloud service meant all I lost was time while the backup was restored to a new external drive.
The only sleep I lost was over worrying if the Mac rebooting at the end of the restore would set off the motion detectors on the shop alarm and give me an unwelcome wake-up call to go and switch it off at silly-o'clock in the morning!
We have some extra code for drawing native table headers differently depending on whether or not the window is active. I found that this extra code is not needed to draw table headers properly on Yosemite so, in the following test patches, I disabled this extra code when running on Yosemite.
Can you install one of the following test patches and tell us if the hanging still occurs? If it still occurs, can you attach a new sample?:
Joined: Oct 24, 2005 Posts: 561 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject:
I installed NeoOffice-3.4.1-Patch-9-Test-1-Intel this morning and during the course of the day made sure that the Mac was left to go to sleep with the Form window front most and also with the Finder as the front app to make sure the Form window wasn't active.
I haven't experienced a crash so far. The Mac this database runs on is on 8 hours a day 6 days a week. In the first few days of using OS X 10.10 it has hung at some point on most days, so it should be clear soon if the change you have made has fixed the problem.
I haven't experienced a crash so far. The Mac this database runs on is on 8 hours a day 6 days a week. In the first few days of using OS X 10.10 it has hung at some point on most days, so it should be clear soon if the change you have made has fixed the problem.
That is encouraging news. If you don't see any hanging or crashing in the next several days, let us know and I will put the fix into an official NeoOffice 3.4.1 patch.
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