Joined: Sep 18, 2003 Posts: 434 Location: London, UK
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:00 am Post subject:
Do people think, to add balance and fairness to the info we are providing, that a section should be also added to highlight the current weaknesses/deficiencies in NeoOfficeJ as well. I'm thinking of the following (and any others that can be thought of) in no particular order:
1. The 300 dpi print resolution limit.
2. The use of the X11 or Windows-like open/save dialogues which don't use the same file ordering hierarchy as the native OS X dialogues.
3. The lack of media playing capability in Impress.
4. The table drawing limitations of OOo relative to Office.
5. The compatibility issues with Office formats - very good but not 100% (especially wrt to Excel and Calc).
6. The non-Mac OS X like character selection/jumping keyboard actions (jump to beginning/end of line, beginning/end of word etc). I realise that MS Office suffers from this as well, but it doesn't make it any less awkward/annoying.
I can't think of any others at present...
P.S. However, I've just thought of another important feature of OOo/NeoJ that I have seen as a pre-requisite for some users - the ability to track changes. Not only can OOo/NeoJ do this, but it is compatible with MS Office tracking too - I think that needs to be included and the compatibility with Office emphasised. _________________ PBG4, 1.5GHz, SuperDrive, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 5400rpm 80GB HD, MacOS X 10.4.5
Do people think, to add balance and fairness to the info we are providing, that a section should be also added to highlight the current weaknesses/deficiencies in NeoOfficeJ as well.
Yes. Definitely include such a list.
In general, it is a pet peeve of mine that most software purports to be "the next greatest thing." IMHO, this is rarely true and Neo/J is no exception.
In other words, don't fall into the trap of trying "evangelize" Neo/J's use. Instead, list all of the features and weaknesses and let you user decide. Neo/J does not benefit from "selling" users as I have found that a certain percentage of people who try it will like it but a larger percentage will find that it just doesn't meet their needs for one or another.
1. The 300 dpi print resolution limit.
2. The use of the X11 or Windows-like open/save dialogues which don't use the same file ordering hierarchy as the native OS X dialogues.
3. The lack of media playing capability in Impress.
4. The table drawing limitations of OOo relative to Office.
5. The compatibility issues with Office formats - very good but not 100% (especially wrt to Excel and Calc).
6. The non-Mac OS X like character selection/jumping keyboard actions (jump to beginning/end of line, beginning/end of word etc). I realise that MS Office suffers from this as well, but it doesn't make it any less awkward/annoying.
Some questions
1. Is that also the limit for PDF export and font printing? Or just bitmaps?
2. True, and vexing.
4. Which are those?
I'll put them in the wiki, feel free to correct.
EDIT: EPS printing is also broken. Is this also true for OOo or just Neo?
JKT wrote:
1P.S. However, I've just thought of another important feature of OOo/NeoJ that I have seen as a pre-requisite for some users - the ability to track changes. Not only can OOo/NeoJ do this, but it is compatible with MS Office tracking too - I think that needs to be included and the compatibility with Office emphasised.
Done. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Joined: Sep 18, 2003 Posts: 434 Location: London, UK
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:29 am Post subject:
ovvldc wrote:
Some questions
1. Is that also the limit for PDF export and font printing? Or just bitmaps?
2. True, and vexing.
4. Which are those?
I'll put them in the wiki, feel free to correct.
EDIT: EPS printing is also broken. Is this also true for OOo or just Neo?
4. I find that Table drawing in OOo just isn't as easy to do as it is in Office - especially resizing borders and copy pasting rows and columns - and there is the annoying split that occurs in your table if it goes over the size of the page (there is a thread on this here). It isn't terrible, just not as good as Office.
You'd have to clarify with Patrick about the dpi limitation, but I would assume it is just for images in the document. _________________ PBG4, 1.5GHz, SuperDrive, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 5400rpm 80GB HD, MacOS X 10.4.5
Joined: Sep 18, 2003 Posts: 434 Location: London, UK
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
pluby wrote:
JKT wrote:
Do people think, to add balance and fairness to the info we are providing, that a section should be also added to highlight the current weaknesses/deficiencies in NeoOfficeJ as well.
Yes. Definitely include such a list.
In general, it is a pet peeve of mine that most software purports to be "the next greatest thing." IMHO, this is rarely true and Neo/J is no exception.
In other words, don't fall into the trap of trying "evangelize" Neo/J's use. Instead, list all of the features and weaknesses and let you user decide. Neo/J does not benefit from "selling" users as I have found that a certain percentage of people who try it will like it but a larger percentage will find that it just doesn't meet their needs for one or another.
Patrick
I'm glad that you agree - it might also help reduce the annoyingly... actually I should just say "unfortunately" as that is a little harsh... ignorant "comments" you might get at e.g. Versiontracker etc. (and mails/posts which prompted your "why all the anger?" thread)
P.S. Just thought of another deficiency to add:
7. Speed - I'm not thinking of launch time here, but the one place where this sticks in my mind is when starting a presentation for the first time. It too is also pretty slow but I suspect that is an OOo issue rather than just a NeoJ one. _________________ PBG4, 1.5GHz, SuperDrive, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 5400rpm 80GB HD, MacOS X 10.4.5
Do people think, to add balance and fairness to the info we are providing, that a section should be also added to highlight the current weaknesses/deficiencies in NeoOfficeJ as well.
Yes. Definitely include such a list.
In general, it is a pet peeve of mine that most software purports to be "the next greatest thing." IMHO, this is rarely true and Neo/J is no exception.
In other words, don't fall into the trap of trying "evangelize" Neo/J's use. Instead, list all of the features and weaknesses and let you user decide. Neo/J does not benefit from "selling" users as I have found that a certain percentage of people who try it will like it but a larger percentage will find that it just doesn't meet their needs for one or another.
Patrick
I'm glad that you agree - it might also help reduce the annoyingly... actually I should just say "unfortunately" as that is a little harsh... ignorant "comments" you might get at e.g. Versiontracker etc. (and mails/posts which prompted your "why all the anger?" thread)
P.S. Just thought of another deficiency to add:
7. Speed - I'm not thinking of launch time here, but the one place where this sticks in my mind is when starting a presentation for the first time. It too is also pretty slow but I suspect that is an OOo issue rather than just a NeoJ one.
Could I suggest that some of these missing features and so forth be designated "TO DO" when appropriate, especially w/regard to missing OS X features (file browser, Aqua, etc.)?
I agree that those feature charts that have checkmarks generally have one or two "token" features that the competitors have that your product doesn't to create the impression that it's a "fair" comparison. And that can be annoying cuz obviously it isn't fair-- it's always skewed in favor of one side. But then again, a press release isn't the best place to be pointing out the disadvantages of your own product...
This is open source and there are no investors/shareholders that have to be made happy, no market share that has to be captured, etc. An open development process and marketing process (which is what we're having now) is philosophically in line with fairness and honesty in promoting the product. And full disclosure is always a great idea. But let's not go overboard though with a press page that says, in effect, "NeoOffice/J released! And it sucks!!!" Because it doesn't-- it's just that no software is 100% perfect. So let's be absolutely honest about the product and its advantages and disadvantage, but at the same time, we've got something really exciting to announce, so let's also put our best foot forward.
The comparison chart at apfelwiki.de is very well done (it's actually expanded/gotten better since I last tried to decipher its German ) http://apfelwiki.de/wiki/Tests/WordAlternativenTest; it helps that they're not a company/organization with a product
So in theory our chart should strive to be like theirs. I've added some granularity/clarifications to some of the items, so our tables aren't all YES/no
Waldo wrote:
But let's not go overboard though with a press page that says, in effect, "NeoOffice/J released! And it sucks!!!" Because it doesn't-- it's just that no software is 100% perfect. So let's be absolutely honest about the product and its advantages and disadvantage, but at the same time, we've got something really exciting to announce, so let's also put our best foot forward.
Absolutely. Say it again, Waldo!
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: Comparing on the wiki... etc.
Quite a few things I didn't know were listed in the comparing and I think it is very informative and great!
I have put a new subheading in the press-kit-page: 3.3 Profiles... so that people who dedicate their lives to work on neo/j (especially Patric and Ed, but probably several others) can put a short bio there.
The idea is to both give credit to the hardest workers (core) of the community, but also show that neo/j is made (coded, tested, etc.) by extremely qualified people, since the is no "corporate logo" to convince the general public of how serious the neo/j project is...
P.S. Ray, would you be willing to have/write up a small blurb about your migration for the "press kit" we're talking about in Neo/J logos and graphics thread?
Of course. How small is 'small'?
It will be important to recognise that, thanks to NeoOffice/J, OpenOffice.org is able to say it now reaches out to typical computer users on all the major consumer OSs. I hope they will contribute something along those lines.
P.S. Ray, would you be willing to have/write up a small blurb about your migration for the "press kit"
Of course. How small is 'small'?
2 or 3 paragraphs or something.
BTW, I agree with Neo opening up OOo to Mac users, but try to phrase in such as to emphasize the advantages of aquafication and not complain about the downsides of X11.
That would be more positive, and nicer to the X11 people. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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Good to see we have one amongst us.
and I think it is very informative and great!