I've one question on the practical usage side: the immediate impression I got looking at the prototype images was - it's all REALLY white. I have pretty sensitive eyes, and use an OSX theme that makes things as dark as possible - and I appreciate the greyness of Neo/J as it means less eyestrain. If the new icons and so on were implemented, would there be any straightforward way to change the background colour - are the icons transparent or solid white?
This is not a gripe, it's my subjective response, and probably not an issue for most people - or Aqua wouldn't be as popular as it is. I'm looking forward to seeing how this develops.
I thought that this might be a good time to list out any technical contrainsts that icon creators need to know. Knowing these in advance will hopefully make it easier for icon creators to immediately test their work as well:
1. Save all your images as BMP files - The OOo code is really geared to loading BMP files.
2. Only use a supported bit depth - The OOo code can only handle images with bit depths of 1, 4, 8, and 24.
3. Do not put an alpha channel in your image - This is a repeat of item 2. OOo only supports a maximum bit depth of 24 so 32 bit images will not work.
4. Do not code put the background color in your image - The background may be configurable or appear differently on some users' screens. Instead, create a separate 1 bit mask image to specify which pixels are to be painted and which are not. OOo uses mask images to simulate transparent images.
while the mock up looks really nice, i want to point out again something patrick said.
Quote:
...because implementing such application layout in Neo/J is many years of work. Dropping replacement icons into Neo/J is one thing, but changing location is a massive amount of work.
just as a reminder that changing the icons (and perhaps the feel) of neo is a relatively easy thing to accomplish at this point.
a total re-design of the GUI, though possible, is much harder.
Joined: May 31, 2003 Posts: 219 Location: French Alps
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:43 am Post subject:
jakeOSX wrote:
Quote:
...because implementing such application layout in Neo/J is many years of work. Dropping replacement icons into Neo/J is one thing, but changing location is a massive amount of work.
just as a reminder that changing the icons (and perhaps the feel) of neo is a relatively easy thing to accomplish at this point.
a total re-design of the GUI, though possible, is much harder.
NO-NO, the right formulation is rather : A total redesign such a envisioned in this mock up is total fantasy.
I don't want to be rude to anyone but unless clearly warned, the waste of effort doing such design, WITHOUT a full crew of professional programmers working to implement it, will lead to nasty disappointment.
just as a reminder that changing the icons (and perhaps the feel) of neo is a relatively easy thing to accomplish at this point.
And should be point one. Then comes nothing for some time as Patrick and Ed have many tasks in getting functionality right. Then comes that, admittedly very lovely, GUI redesign (I really like the tabs).
OTOH, having someone on board with a good vision to a great look is always a plus. IMSHO the OOo team should have done so ages ago. But for now, nice icons will be everything that can be accomodated with the current code. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
I think a simple icon redesign and another gray color windows could reach the goal to have more users using neooffice. I know many people opens neooffice, says 'hei it's like windows' and close it.
A less windows-style could be useful for patrick and ed, in long term prospective.
But I agree, I prefer pluby could work on serious bugs instead redesign a gui for neoffice. I prefer have the windows-style icons and know pluby have founded in a dream a workaround for long paragraph problem, that have a wonderful quartz gui, without the possibility to use it for creative writing.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:30 pm Post subject: A Cheat-Cheap Way For Neo GUI?
RedOrchard wrote:
I agree with berchca’s ideas.
Here is the 2nd revision of the GUI redesign. It lacks much commentary but it’s pretty straight forward. Most of the redesign is in reducing menu size and getting the menus out of the way of the work space. I’m not totally satisfied with it but as a 2nd revision it’s not bad. I changed the sample theme to a less depressing subject matter.
Is there a "cheat man's" way of having the effect?
My son's doing something positively amazing with clippings and NeoWrite and when he returns I'll inquire further.
Barry made an image clipping of the whole top bar of the Writer-T001-Normal_Wide.jpg image mentioned here and overlaid it over a NeoOffice Write screen's own top bar and ruler and is using some pd program ("F-Key editor"??) which as he explained it, intercepts mouse clicks clicked on particular screen coordinates and passes them on to "click" a key/feature on any program "underneath." Granted it's a crude effect and of course the "buttons" of the image clipping don't move but they are "hot" as it puts it and he's managed to activate the real Bold font in the Writer text space (the only one he's gotten to work so far) by "clicking" on the bogus but nicely stylized Bold button on the overlaying image. He wants to create a "Kaleidoscope"(?) for OS-X.
I'd like to know whether he's just reinventing the wheel and where might such a program proxy screen overlay might be had.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:28 pm Post subject: What is NeoOffice/J "icon redesign"?
Okay-- I think some confusion needs to be cleared up here.
The only feasible "redesign" of NeoOffice/J in the NEAR future is to replace the windows-ish icons-- literally the little graphical images that are there now-- with "better looking" original ones that adhere better to the Mac look.
Moving buttons around, replacing them, changing their positioning or size or size or function are all programming feats that are beyond what Ed and Patrick are willing/able to do. (although, I do think there is flexibility within NeoOffice itself in how its UI is presented, which can be adjusted in the preferences).
What I think Ed and Pat want is a set-- a package-- of graphic files to replace the existing icons on a 1:1 basis so that for every ugly Windowsesque icon that's there now, the new icon set gives a better-looking one for the Mac platform.
As I understand it, there are several hundred icons in NeoOffice, and they all need nice-looking replacements.
The icons should all be beautiful. They must be licensed in some fashion that's compatible with NeoOffice's licensing-- so no taking images from other programs if you don't have the right to do that. They must all go-together, matching as a set. They should look comfortable on the Mac. I'm thinking they'd be blue.
The bigger stuff-- new windows, pulldowns, tabs, etc. It's nice, but it's not what Pluby and Ed can do much with at the moment.
Rather than a total overhaul of the user interface, energy would be best spent creating the new icon set. Pluby has given the specs (.bmp files, 24 bit, etc.) for what is needed.
I think someone has a list of the icon files, and where they are, somewhere. I even remember reading that someone wrote a program that replaces them in the OpenOffice code (or was it application?).
Spending time and effort on these other mock-ups-- to me, anyway-- seems like a waste at this time in NeoOffice/J's life. Although I thought this especially was great. Where are the source files and what are the corresponding files in Neo/J?
W
PS-- If I am wrong on any of this, someone please correct me.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:18 am Post subject: OO Mockup Clarification
Clarification On Purpose of the Graphic User Interface (GUI) Mockups
Since this has turned into a long thread here is a reposting of an earlier article.
Quote:
I’d appreciate all the help I can get with the GUI. Right now I’m working on getting a rough draft for us to look at and then move on from there.
Perhaps I could have been clearer the mockups are of the full userinterface (GUI) not just icon packs.
Quote:
Since it looks like there is going to be 3 artists working on various GUI elements it’s going to be important to keep a consistent look and if the need arises, come up with an unbiased way of deciding which icon fits best. Artists tend to be pretty attached to their work.
I think Berchca has followed up on this idea with an earlier post.
Quote:
For clarification of what I mean by “first rough prototype†is a single picture of what I want to see OO 2.x writer look like. I’m looking at the GUI of other apps and getting ideas, as well as snagging icons for the GUI. I’m taking most of my cues from Apple’s iApps. So most of the icons won’t be original but indicate the general direction of where I want the icons to go. I’ll have to redo the look so it’s not an exact copy. You can take a sigh of relief because there won’t be any brushed metal. =)
1) No element of copyrighted icons will be used for the final icons.
2) Right now it’s a mixed collage of elements from other programs and original artwork. So there is something to talk about and move on from. I got the impression that some were thinking more towards final ideas than rough ideas.
Quote:
I want to know what others think about the choice of icons/GUI, if they have better ideas, etc. So what you’ll see on the 27th is a different GUI for OO with some original, but mostly copied icons. So there won’t be any icons to quickly plug into OO right now. Once I’m satisfied with the look and feel of the prototype icons I’ll start to fit it into the current 1.1 OO GUI.
As I understand it NeoJ’s purpose is to able to use OO right now. A whole new interface is not workable with this project. New icons can be fit in to make it more mac like but that’s about it. Then these icons can be moved over to the mac native or java 2.0 OO port sometime in the future.
The mockups are more geared towards something like OO 3.0 (which is years away). This is to provide a roadmap/goal to aim for and then work towards instead of working on immediate needs that might paint you into a corner and waste time. So the mockups are a much longer vision then just some immediate icon replacements. These are two seperate steps.
It takes a great deal of time to make icons. It is easy to go through 5-10 design ideas before coming up with something you like. So you are looking at as little as 3 hours to a whole day for one icon.
I’m about 90% satisfied with the current mockups. I still need to comment on the design changes and why I did it. So I’ll be up to making icon packs for neoJ pretty soon. There were some family matters to take care of so I haven’t been as communicative as I’d like to be.
A weekly meeting of the involved members is a good way to keep each other informed of what we're up to. We could use iChat in room "neoj".
I noticed that OO build 1.9 has new icons also. It makes sense to snag 1.9 icons and use them to replace 1.1 versions where appropriate. (1.9 screen shot http://lwn.net/Articles/117953/ ).
The Most Immediate Need Is To:
(Which I have no idea how to do)
1) Suck out resources of the icons used in 1.1 and 1.9 builds so I know the exact size of each icon and have a base idea to work from.
2) A way for me to put the new icons back into OO so I can see what it looks like.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 8:25 am Post subject: Really white
yoxi wrote:
That's some lovely and impressive work, there.
I've one question on the practical usage side: the immediate impression I got looking at the prototype images was - it's all REALLY white.
The colors are standard mac for applications not using brushed metal like "mail". If there was a simple way to set a more grey background it would be a good idea to include it. Studies have shown a light yellow background with black letters are the best colors for clarity. No one uses it because it because many think it's ugly.
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 45 Location: Le Mans, France
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:00 am Post subject:
Waiting for some change, I have made my own theme.
All the icons are from OpenSources softwares or Apple defauts ones.
I used icons from Ximian Stock, Nuvola, Crystal, Mozilla Softwares Pinstripe theme and Apple System.
I have changed around 580 icons that where directly accessible, but the other even if I want and I can change them, they are stored i don't know where in the software ....
And if I could change the defaut grey to something lighter like a grey RGB 238/238/238 (#EEEEEE), and the horrible dark grey icons mask with a transparency mask, it would be already definetely more attractive to use.
Any way to change that orange glow around the B, U, I to a blue to match the other icons a little better? (my aesthetic opinion..)
. Is much better than the default. But the new file icons remains elusive, I see. I personally wanted either all or no orange outlines so I used the ones without. Can you send me or post the sets and/or the precise places you got all these icons (Moz Pinstripe and Apple System locations in particular).
Best wishes,
Oscar _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 45 Location: Le Mans, France
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject:
I will post them, no prob, for information, the Apple ones come from the main Apple softwares installed by the system and used in a lot of other softwares to keep the coherence, and Pinstipe is the defaut theme of Mozilla softwares under Mac OS.
I will post them, no prob, for information, the Apple ones come from the main Apple softwares installed by the system and used in a lot of other softwares to keep the coherence, and Pinstipe is the defaut theme of Mozilla softwares under Mac OS.
Thanks! And I know where they are from (though I use Seamonkey, so no Pinstripe). I am just wondering about what directory exactly I need to search..
Best wishes,
Oscar (still felled by flue and feeling annoyingly lazy because of it) _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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. Is much better than the default. But the new file icons remains elusive, I see. I personally wanted either all or no orange outlines so I used the ones without. Can you send me or post the sets and/or the precise places you got all these icons (Moz Pinstripe and Apple System locations in particular).