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Guest
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 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: |
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My Neo (patch 14 installed; German version) just crashed on my Intel Mac (OS 10.4.8; latest Java update installed) when quitting by Cmd+Q.
So the bug is not yet fixed? |
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I think the suitable course of action would be to reopen bug 2151 and attach your crashlog to it (Do not forget this last bit. just reopening it will not do anything to make Patrick understand what could be wrong.).
Best wishes,
Oscar
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"What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi |
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sardisson
Town Crier
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:51 am Post subject: |
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You might also try rebooting your Mac; sometimes Mac OS X caches libraries too "hard" and loads the ones in memory instead of the new, patched ones 
If that doesn't help, then certainly attach a crash log to the bug.
Smokey
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"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki |
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amayze
The Merovingian
Joined: Oct 24, 2005
Posts: 561
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ovvldc wrote: | | I think the suitable course of action would be to reopen bug 2151 and attach your crashlog to it |
I've just done that as Neo just crashed on me when quitting. No harm in adding another crash log though.
Andy. |
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hexstar
Red Pill
Joined: Feb 16, 2007
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Just tried NeoOffice patch 14 on PPC and could not confirm this reappearance of this bug, might exist on Intel though...don't have a Intel mac with me at the moment though to check now unfortunately...what architecture are you guys experiencing this reappearance of this bug on? |
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sardisson
Town Crier
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Guest (above) and amayze are both on Intel.
Edit: I see Patrick already has a test patch 
Smokey
_________________
"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki |
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valterb
The Anomaly
(earlier version)
Joined: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 463
Location: San Giuliano Terme, Pisa, Italy
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| sardisson wrote: | | Guest (above) and amayze are both on Intel. |
I am on Intel too but not have problem in quitting.
Valter |
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jgd
Agent Smith
Joined: Feb 27, 2005
Posts: 1531
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: |
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I've no problem, neither on PPC, nor on Intel.
Jacqueline |
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The same guest as above
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Patch 15 is installed - boy, how fast are you guys??? You're amazing! - and I started and quitted NeoOffice for three times each by Cmd+Q and the menu. Nothing happened except for what should happen.
But then again my above crash report wasn't exact: Nothing happened for a few times after I had installed Patch 14 but then it crashed once and every time again after that. |
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Guest Too
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| The same guest as above wrote: | Patch 15 is installed - boy, how fast are you guys??? You're amazing! - and I started and quitted NeoOffice for three times each by Cmd+Q and the menu. Nothing happened except for what should happen.
But then again my above crash report wasn't exact: Nothing happened for a few times after I had installed Patch 14 but then it crashed once and every time again after that. |
Got it! You can also use "OP" for Original Poster. Glad everything is sorted. The old joke was these guys are faster with issuing the patches than the program launches but not true anymore. While Neo launches much quicker these days (tweaked coding combined with Macs coming w/ more RAM?) there also seems to be many more patches (due to Intel?) than I remember in the old days. Maybe the patches are just more visible/official. |
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OPENSTEP
The One
Joined: May 25, 2003
Posts: 4752
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Don't forget that AB3 is also old (since last august) and, in reality, is one of the longer releases we've had We also had to do many patches as AB3 was one of the largest core changes we've done. It added in support for a new virtual machine that we made the default (Java 1.5), Aqua controls (which had many issues of their own) and other features. More bugs were probably also found due to it getting a wider deployment. There's a lot of bug fixes and hundreds of hours of work that have gone into the patches for AB3.
ed |
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sardisson
Town Crier
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 4588
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| OPENSTEP wrote: | | Don't forget that AB3 is also old (since last august) and, in reality, is one of the longer releases we've had |
6 months is double the usual time for a (non-final) Neo milestone to be out there.
| OPENSTEP wrote: | | We also had to do many patches as AB3 was one of the largest core changes we've done. |
15, which is a record.
| OPENSTEP wrote: | | It added in support for a new virtual machine that we made the default (Java 1.5), Aqua controls (which had many issues of their own) and other features. More bugs were probably also found due to it getting a wider deployment. |
Translation: Patrick and Ed made a rockin' Aqua Beta, and the world loved it 
| OPENSTEP wrote: | | There's a lot of bug fixes and hundreds of hours of work that have gone into the patches for AB3. |
Only hundreds of hours? 
Smokey
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"[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki |
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pluby
The Architect
Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| sardisson wrote: | | OPENSTEP wrote: | | Don't forget that AB3 is also old (since last august) and, in reality, is one of the longer releases we've had |
6 months is double the usual time for a (non-final) Neo milestone to be out there. |
Actually, 6 - 9 months is the norm. The first Neo 2.0 Alpha came out in early 2006 (about 6 months before Aqua Beta). Sure, we did an separate Alpha for Intel, but that was using the same OOo release. Before the first 2.0 Alpha, the last big upgrade release was in summer of 2005 when we did the Neo 1.2.x series.
Doing releases every 3 months is not really feasible. Just doing 3 Early Access runs three months apart to squeeze the Intel release in had a huge negative impact on my health. Boht Ed and I were working 80 hours a week for months on end. The under-30 set can usually bounce back easily from such a grinding pace, but old guys like me start to see our health break down quickly and the recovery time is long and slow.
Seriously, though, there is very little code of interest coming out of OOo these days. They are changing little things here and there, but don't be fooled by their increasing rate of doing releases. In my experience and the experience of several friends who have worked in Silicon Valley over the years, rapidly increasing the rate of new releases for a mature project many times is a subtle sign that the managers of the project are worried about their funding being cut. That isn't always the case, but if you are a manager and you see your project and staff threatened with cuts, the immediate impulse is to try and grab more external PR.
Granted, I have no idea what is going within Sun, the above is just my guess based on the fact that OOo is spinning new releases every 2 months yet there are no plans to add the one feature that most everyone is going to need in a very short time: suport for Office 2007 files.
Patrick |
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ovvldc
Captain Naiobi
Joined: Sep 13, 2004
Posts: 2352
Location: Zürich, CH
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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As long as we get the patches to keep Neo functional and stable, I don't mind nine months releases. Particularly if it keeps our developers in good health.
But you mention that Sun is not adding features. I get a feel they want to go do the Firefox thing and make it easier for outsiders to add stuff (hence the updating and extension stuff) now that the core functionality is done.
As for the Open Office XML filter, I recall there was some of that in Neo 2.1 EAP, so I suppose OOo will take it in a future release (if they have any sense).
More importantly, I am curious what your plans are for NeoOffice. You have a very well-made product (which will now inevitably become very successful) out of the door. I feel the need to suggest a vacation or another way to recharge. But then what?
Best wishes,
Oscar
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"What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi |
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pluby
The Architect
Joined: Jun 16, 2003
Posts: 11949
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ovvldc wrote: | | But you mention that Sun is not adding features. I get a feel they want to go do the Firefox thing and make it easier for outsiders to add stuff (hence the updating and extension stuff) now that the core functionality is done. |
In other words, they want to focus on the existing package feature. That's all the extensions are: a new name for an old feature.
| ovvldc wrote: | | As for the Open Office XML filter, I recall there was some of that in Neo 2.1 EAP, so I suppose OOo will take it in a future release (if they have any sense). |
I'm not betting on that happening. For one, integrating the OpenXML filter is trivial and I suspect that OOo has not done so for political or strategic reasons, not because they don't know about it. For another, Novell has been trying to get Sun to incorporate its Excel VBA code for quite some time and Sun has been dragging its feet. In engineering circles this is called the "not invented here" syndrome. If OOo finally includes Novell's Excel VBA code, my opinion might change, but until then I am betting that OOo is going to continue fussing with features at the edges and will ignore the two features that everyone is going to need in 2007: OpenXML and Excel VBA support.
| ovvldc wrote: | | More importantly, I am curious what your plans are for NeoOffice. You have a very well-made product (which will now inevitably become very successful) out of the door. I feel the need to suggest a vacation or another way to recharge. But then what? |
Supporting the product is more than a full time job. Contrary to what many people assume, fixing bugs is not trivial work. I work at least 60 hours a week after a release in order to handle the engineering maintenance of a release. Basically, NeoOffice is so large now that it has become my full time job and will continue to be.
In other words, while Ed and I find great emotional satisfaction from our NeoOffice work, it would quickly die if donations stopped coming in and I had to get a regular job. Because Ed and I are in this for the long haul, my goal for 2007 is to improve our fundraising so that I can afford to hire out some of the tasks that Ed and I do. While Ed and I have hidden the effect of our users doubling every six months for the past 4 years, the reality is that the day-to-day running of NeoOffice.org has slowly eaten into our development time. Additional funding would help us farm more work out that we shouldn't be doing (for example, I have to do all of the U.S. corporate taxes, tax notices, financial statements, payroll filings, and business insurance procurement). Stuff like that eats up huge amounts of time and reduces the amount of time that Ed and I can spend on development which is cannot be so easily filled by consultants.
Patrick |
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