So in most places you have one, two and three - but in later passages you start to have one, two, and three (final comma before the 'and' - Harvard commas, I think you call 'em, though over here they belong to Oxford).
Well, writing and editing was done by a Brit, a Dutchman, two Americans (I guess; all I know about Waldo is that he is "a great guy" ) and a Norwegian, so...
On this side of the pond, it depends on the style manual you're using, but for the life of me I can never keep them straight. From youth I've been a "one, two, and three" kind of guy, although I think "journalistic style" does "one, two and three" (if I remember my old roommate right), so that's probably what we should go with.
Since I'm dead from staring at these documents, would you mind pointing out the places that need the extra comma removed? Or even just removing them yourself?
Anonymous wrote:
The other thing I noticed is the - I assume deliberate - absence of mention of the actual OOo version that Neo/J is currently based on. Saying "Based on the latest stable OpenOffice.org codebase..." and not saying it's v1.1.4 may lead to a load of people asking "You mean v2? Why not?", especially once a proper OOo v2 beta hits the streets. This could be tiresome for you developers.
The phrase itself was chosen for "marketing" reasons (it sounds cool ), but I'm not sure why we don't mention 1.1.4 specifically. We do mention that elsewhere (on the main page, release notes, somewhere in the press kit...).
OOo 2.0 Beta has already hit the streets (back in March or April), but a beta does not a stable codebase make. People will start saying "why not 2.0" when 2.0 arrives in July (in theory) and about October when 2.0 for Mac OS X X11 finally shows up , but this is June, and right now 1.1.4 is the latest stable codebase.
I don't see a need to inject that into the Announcement--especially at this very late point--but if there's a consensus in the next 12-16 hours--and a simple place to put it that won't affect translations--then OK.
Smokey
(Wow! At some point yesterday or Friday I hit 1000 posts, but I was too busy to notice. Where's the smiley for exhaustion? ) _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
FWIW, I highlight/copied the announcement and did the following to make a text-only version that could easily be copy/pasted into emails & the like...
* removed all [edit]s
* made the section headings in all caps.
* made the email address on the same line as "Contact" and made it spammable (ie, not the ... AT ... DOT...)
* added a colon after "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE" cuz I thought it looked cool.
* We should somehow force a couple blank lines (&spc; or whatever) before the "NeoOffice®/J 1.1 for Mac OS X Released" to make it look centered like a title/header.
I think we need a version like this below, in all text that can be quickly copy/pasted into emails and submissions. Otherwise, they will be spaced differently in different versions (as people use the source, or copy/paste the text with the edits or whatever...)
NOTE: This is just here for reference. I'd like the all-text version to go in the wiki-- maybe move the various wiki "sections" into one block? Make an "official" copy/paste version, Sardisson?
The changes above are merely suggestions, but I wanted y'all to see what it would look like w/caps sections and stuff, since this will be submitted in text to most places. Once there's a consensus, I'll go back to this post and delete it to avoid confusion..
W
Quote:
(removed to avoid confusion)
Last edited by Waldo on Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Those will go away when __NOEDITSECTION__ goes in the page tonight
Waldo wrote:
* made the section headings in all caps.
* made the email address on the same line as "Contact" and made it spammable (ie, not the ... AT ... DOT...)
Caps are OK, although they don't seem necessary (nor spaces between the header and pghs; true PRs seem to leave out all the spaces, except between the end of the last pgh of a section and the header of the next one). The real email was always part of the plan for the final release
Waldo wrote:
* added a colon after "FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE" cuz I thought it looked cool.
* We should somehow force a couple blank lines (&spc; or whatever) before the "NeoOffice®/J 1.1 for Mac OS X Released" to make it look centered like a title/header.
A dozen perhaps?
Waldo wrote:
I think we need a version like this below, in all text that can be quickly copy/pasted into emails and submissions. Otherwise, they will be spaced differently in different versions (as people use the source, or copy/paste the text with the edits or whatever...)
Yeah, I agree. I'll make one tonight and link it from somewhere on the page (i.e., so it doesn't add to the already long page and doesn't interrupt the pretty versions ) once we get some more guidance.
Someone here has had a little more PR experience than me, 'cause that's how we got part of the format in the first place....
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Yeah, sorry, I'd love to have got a bit more involved on the proof-reading front, but selling a house, buying a house, planning a marriage (mine). doing 2 jobs, and lately having to take some medicine that initially made me feel 20 again - i.e. stoned all the time...
Quote:
On this side of the pond, it depends on the style manual you're using, but for the life of me I can never keep them straight. From youth I've been a "one, two, and three" kind of guy, although I think "journalistic style" does "one, two and three" (if I remember my old roommate right), so that's probably what we should go with.
Since I'm dead from staring at these documents, would you mind pointing out the places that need the extra comma removed? Or even just removing them yourself?
I'll do the commas, no problem - I think the 'no comma' style is considered more racey (and makes more room in magazine columns) but the point of having the last comma there (as is the one of hte main purposes of all punctuation, IMO) is to minimise ambiguity - if the last comma isn't there, it's possible to think that the last 2 items in the list are meant to be a subgroup separate from the rest... but anyhow, I'll take 'em out.
Quote:
The phrase itself was chosen for "marketing" reasons (it sounds cool ), but I'm not sure why we don't mention 1.1.4 specifically ... I don't see a need to inject that into the Announcement--especially at this very late point--but if there's a consensus in the next 12-16 hours--and a simple place to put it that won't affect translations--then OK.
't ain't no thing - I assumed it was left out on purpose, just checking. On reflection, leaving it out makes the product sound up-to-date in a way that perhaps putting it in wouldn't.
(why has Safari suddenly stopped logging me in automatically? Who knoweth...) Anyway, that was really me up there (yes, I noticed my own typo, but as a guest I can't edit it ).
Okay, commas now edited for consistency in the EN version of the announcement. The only one I didn't edit was within quotes, so may be verbatim if Patrick wrote it rather than 'said' it.
Okay, commas now edited for consistency in the EN version of the announcement. The only one I didn't edit was within quotes, so may be verbatim if Patrick wrote it rather than 'said' it.
Hi Yoxi,
Welcome back! I hope your medication is not too serious. Must be fine, if you are plannin your marriage. Congratulations with that!
As for commas, I already put them the way they are usually handled in Dutch in my translation (which is 1, 2, 3 en 4). Unless you can show me something else that changed after I did the translation on saturday, I am not touching it anymore.
Best wishes,
Oscar _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
I've done the FAQ so far. Please have a look, make sure I'm nice enough to the X11 folks, accurate, etc. I didn't provide a link back to the Planamesa FAQ because it's partially outdated (What is Neo/J) and because some of its tone is inappropriate for the Press Kit
...
P.S. Oscar, please make sure I have the right case/gender/word for "Dutch" in the new langbar on the Announcement.... It's nicer to have the jump right at the top than forcing people to scroll. Of course, when you give the URL, you can give the url to the anchor, but it gets even more cumbersome than the wiki url is normally
Hi Smokey,
You did fine . I just tweaked a header a few minutes ago, about which I hadn't been happy earlier. I'm going to look through the Press Kit now.
Best wishes,
Oscar _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 9:01 am Post subject: Re: *** Please Proofread! ***
sardisson wrote:
Anyway, the Press Kit is more or less in final form. But, I really need some fresh eyes to proof it, especially the two new sections; I've stared at it far too long to see much at this point. Tomorrow when I'm more rested I'll try to print it out and read it again, but that seems not to be perfectly effective--just ask the translators of the Announcement
Looks good. A few things:
In the release announcement, include a _NOTOC_ as well, to stop that massive table of contents from appearing. Add the relevant links to completed translations in the bar at the top and remove the incomplete ones. I already moved them to the bottom of the page. If need be, put them in <!- style tags.
As for the history, it looks good. I have a single issue, with the reason for using Java is that Patrick is good at it. This is true, but I think the similarity in event models (OOo works much more like Java than Carbon or Cocoa) is a better reason to cite here, though it is more difficult to convey.
I also added a final profile. Someone else should look over it to see if it is complete. I figured that not all significant people are coders and this should be reflected.
It looks like we are almost ready to go _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
My baby (PowerBook) is just about to go into surgery with Dr. Apple for three weeks, and I only have a little time to say... best of British for the release, folks!! A much deserved outcome to a lot of hard work over the past few years, I am sure...
Okay, commas now edited for consistency in the EN version of the announcement. The only one I didn't edit was within quotes, so may be verbatim if Patrick wrote it rather than 'said' it.
As for commas, I already put them the way they are usually handled in Dutch in my translation (which is 1, 2, 3 en 4). Unless you can show me something else that changed after I did the translation on saturday, I am not touching it anymore.
For the french translation, I also put the commas the way they use to be in French (1, 2, 3 et 4).
I have a question about Ed's qualification : Could you please explain me what "core engineer" exactly means?
Starting by working backwards, since this is a translation question
val1984 wrote:
I have a question about Ed's qualification : Could you please explain me what "core engineer" exactly means?
It's mostly just another, fancier, way of saying "main programmer/developer/etc." without having to reuse the same words over and over. I.e., Patrick's the creator, Ed's the core engineer, Dan's a developer....
I have a question for you (and other translators, acutally): I'm going through my .sxw version and replacing straight quotes (", ') with the curly ones (“â€, ‘’); in the French section, Neo/J is using « followed by a non-breaking space for the quotations. This is what is expected, correct?
Are there quotation mark conventions for other languages [spelled it right this time! ], and does Neo/J get them correct?
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Are there quotation mark conventions for other languages [spelled it right this time! ], and does Neo/J get them correct?
To my knowledge, they are all the same.. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
My baby (PowerBook) is just about to go into surgery with Dr. Apple for three weeks, and I only have a little time to say... best of British for the release, folks!! A much deserved outcome to a lot of hard work over the past few years, I am sure...
Thanks for all of your help thus far! We'll see you on the other side....
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Yeah, sorry, I'd love to have got a bit more involved on the proof-reading front, but selling a house, buying a house, planning a marriage (mine). doing 2 jobs, and lately having to take some medicine that initially made me feel 20 again - i.e. stoned all the time...
I'm glad you were able to drop in to catch the comma issue (and fix it; thanks!) Congratulations (alf mabrouk! as I am wont to say), and indeed, hope the medication is not too serious....
yoxi wrote:
but the point of having the last comma there (as is the one of hte main purposes of all punctuation, IMO) is to minimise ambiguity - if the last comma isn't there, it's possible to think that the last 2 items in the list are meant to be a subgroup separate from the rest... but anyhow, I'll take 'em out.
As I tracked your changes in my .sxw, I noticed one or two of the places that could have been the case here, but consistancy is better right now
Thanks again!
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
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, but this is June, and right now 1.1.4 is the latest stable codebase.
).
