With Java 1.3.1, a system shutdown didn't notify Neo/J that it was quitting and just blindly quit.
All of the legitimate complaints about Java 1.4.x aside, I think this is a good thing from a dataloss perspective! But if there are no windows/documents opened, Neo/J should just say it can go ahead and shut down. _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Joined: Feb 03, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Scotland
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:28 am Post subject:
pluby wrote:
This is a new "feature" in Java 1.4.x. When you do system shutdown, Java 1.4.x asks the Neo/J code if it is OK to quit. The Neo/J code says "no" to allow time for the "save as" dialogs to be displayed and to handle the case if you cancel quitting.
Thanks for the explanation. As a matter of interest: How will this develop when it comes to Java 2 (which I use for Safari)? Will the switch to Java 1.4 make a transition easier for you in the future, or will this be a task of the same magnitude as switching from 1.3 to 1.4? Anyway, I am happy with any change that allows me to continue using Neo/J if at some point one had to "upgrade" to another flavour of OS X or even Mactel.
Thank you for the answer.
This is not a good news for me: I have just tried with my powerbook g4 12'' 764 mb to open one draw file and switching from a draw page to another is slow here too. In neooffice java 1.3 the switch was immediate, now cocoa need to redraw everytime the page... usually it got 3/4 seconds but sometimes (I do not understand why) I can wat 15 seconds or more. The same putting the window in the dock and reopening it.
I'll keep testing this new beta but I fear I'll come back to the java 1.3 version for my normal work at office (sigh).
As a matter of interest: How will this develop when it comes to Java 2 (which I use for Safari)? Will the switch to Java 1.4 make a transition easier for you in the future, or will this be a task of the same magnitude as switching from 1.3 to 1.4? Anyway, I am happy with any change that allows me to continue using Neo/J if at some point one had to "upgrade" to another flavour of OS X or even Mactel.
Well, Sun chose to use a kind of dual versionning scheme : Java 2 means Java 1.2 and above. Java 5.0 means Java 1.5.
But I don't think Java 3 and 4 names were used
I've try NeoOffice with Performance Patch 1.1 first and 1.2 today but I quickly uninstall it. The performance were not enhanced.
After patch installation, the first startup of neoOffice was very long. I even things the startup freezes. Even after that, the cold-startup was slower than with official release 1.1 (with patch-0).
I want to use neoOffice to show a PowerPoint presentation. The full-screen rendering of PowerPoint animations with NeoOffice 1.1 is very slow with NeoOffice 1.1 but the problem becomes even worse with patch-1.1 or 1.2.
For other things like opening of Word or Writer files, I don't see any difference between un-patched and patched version.
I'm working on a PowerBook G4 1,67GHz 1Go RAM with up-to-date Tiger.
I've try NeoOffice with Performance Patch 1.1 first and 1.2 today but I quickly uninstall it. The performance were not enhanced.
After patch installation, the first startup of neoOffice was very long. I even things the startup freezes. Even after that, the cold-startup was slower than with official release 1.1 (with patch-0).
I want to use neoOffice to show a PowerPoint presentation. The full-screen rendering of PowerPoint animations with NeoOffice 1.1 is very slow with NeoOffice 1.1 but the problem becomes even worse with patch-1.1 or 1.2.
For other things like opening of Word or Writer files, I don't see any difference between un-patched and patched version.
I'm working on a PowerBook G4 1,67GHz 1Go RAM with up-to-date Tiger.
Maybe a pattern is emerging. From the postings, it seems that PowerBook and iBook users are seeing worse performance with Java 1.4.x. Or are non-laptop users seeing obvious slowdown as well?
Joined: Sep 18, 2003 Posts: 434 Location: London, UK
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:05 pm Post subject:
As a PB user, some things are definitely faster (menu display, certainly), but some things *appear* slower (such as the time taken to paint the screen... perhaps it is just as fast/slow as before, but the visuals - seeing everything paint onto the screen - makes it seem slow or slower). I haven't had a chance to do some real world timing yet (like checking to see if spreadsheets open faster or slower or the same as before), but the overall impression is a mixed bag so far with some things obviously better than before.
I think, perhaps, that it could be worthwhile for everyone to temporarily move there /Library/NeoOfficeJ-1.1 folder to one side for a while and see how the patched app behaves under its default settings before making any judgements. Maybe some of the apparent slowdowns are due to the preferences people have selected? _________________ PBG4, 1.5GHz, SuperDrive, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 5400rpm 80GB HD, MacOS X 10.4.5
Maybe a pattern is emerging. From the postings, it seems that PowerBook and iBook users are seeing worse performance with Java 1.4.x. Or are non-laptop users seeing obvious slowdown as well?
Well, I am seeing a lot of things reported by other people. App startup seems faster, even if it hangs for a little while at 2/3 of the progress bar under the splash screen (though not much if I stop Neo and start it up again). I also see much faster menus and still some visible redrawing.
As far as documents are concerned, they seem to be as fast as the old Neo. What I did notice is that UI drawing is done in stages after opening a document and this takes quite some time. I have the impression that import is not slower, but building up the GUI around the particular document is.
Other than that I haven't tested much and haven't seen anything obvious to report as a bug, with the exception of colors. OOo gray is not really my favorite.
Yes, before I forget: iBook, Radeon 9200, OSX 10.3.9.
Best wishes,
Oscar _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
I have NeoOffice perfectly installed, the programmers have been doing a wonderful job, cause you just stopped another mac user from chosing corporative -thanks to them!
I haven't updated it very often though, and I'm using patch 7. :/
So maybe because of that, patch-0 doesn't see Macintosh HD/Applications/NeoOfficeJ ?
Joined: Sep 18, 2003 Posts: 434 Location: London, UK
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:
In this case, you should download the 1.1 final before you can update it to patch 0.
Edit: If you have any further problems with this, can you please post them as a new thread in the Support forum rather than in this one as it is really dedictated to testing the new Performance Test patches. Thanks. _________________ PBG4, 1.5GHz, SuperDrive, 1GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 5400rpm 80GB HD, MacOS X 10.4.5
I can add the macmini... could be something related to g4/g5? Ibook, powerbook and macmini are all using g4. Altivec disabled?
I don't think G4 is the cause as my development machine is a G4 450 MHz PowerMac. What graphics cards are in each of those machines? My theory is that Java 1.4.x is doing graphics acceleration for only certain graphics cards.
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject: My results
Couple notes:
1. I'm using performance patch 1.2 (which needs to be re-linked on the "news" page. It says 1.2 but links to 1.1)
2. Using a Powerbook 667mhz G4 circa 2001 w/768MB. (Tibook revision B). The card is an ATI Rage Mobility)
3. I reported a problem in an earlier thread. This was due to some corruption in some OS X database that had to be rebuilt (thanks to machints for a tip on how to fix it).
4. Loading NeoJ seemed a little faster, although like others, about 2/3s of the way (between the words "Open" and "Office" on the splash page) it seems to hang a while, then resumes.
5. Also having slower scrolling than before. I see the screen redraw pretty clearly. First it whites out the screen, then draws top-to-bottom until the image is refreshed.
6. In the same vein, tooltips flash a second with a box of white before the yellow text is drawn on top.
7. menus seem faster, or at least as fast as any application, although there was a pause I think the first time I accessed it.
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: My results
Waldo wrote:
Couple notes:
1. I'm using performance patch 1.2 (which needs to be re-linked on the "news" page. It says 1.2 but links to 1.1)
2. Using a Powerbook 667mhz G4 circa 2001 w/768MB. (Tibook revision B). The card is an ATI Rage Mobility)
3. I reported a problem in an earlier thread. This was due to some corruption in some OS X database that had to be rebuilt (thanks to machints for a tip on how to fix it).
4. Loading NeoJ seemed a little faster, although like others, about 2/3s of the way (between the words "Open" and "Office" on the splash page) it seems to hang a while, then resumes.
5. Also having slower scrolling than before. I see the screen redraw pretty clearly. First it whites out the screen, then draws top-to-bottom until the image is refreshed.
6. In the same vein, tooltips flash a second with a box of white before the yellow text is drawn on top.
7. menus seem faster, or at least as fast as any application, although there was a pause I think the first time I accessed it.
That's it. Hope this helps.
W
Very similar results with a 550mhz PowerBook G4 (TiBook Rev B).
Menus appear much faster, no initial delay. Tool bar icon redrawing much improved over Patch 1.1. Saving seems to be equivalent to Neo Java 1.3.1.
Open dialog behaves faster, but with more redrawing. The preference window on fire! It's never reacted so fast.
When Neo is 'thinking' it displays a blue spinning wheel instead of the rainbow wheel, is this a Java thing?
Window resizing redrawing faster than before, but with more redrawing, which makes it seem slower. The excessive redraw only seem to occur when making the window narrower than the tool bar icons. When making it wider than the tool bar redraw is very fast.
Menus within window appear almost instantly. Switching from one document to another seems smoother. As someone said before, app feels 'lighter'.
This is all with no other apps open. When I launched iTunes (and played a song) there was a noticeable performance hit. 3/4 as fast redrawing (non scientific )
And I think we should all file bugs with Ooo, way too much redundant redrawing everywhere!
Joined: May 25, 2003 Posts: 4752 Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: My results
Guest wrote:
And I think we should all file bugs with Ooo, way too much redundant redrawing everywhere!
One interesting thing to note is that you can partially see the redrawing oddness in the X11 builds as well. A stupid trick I found was that if the native window background was set to black instead of white, the redraws weren't as noticeable for some reason (at least to me). This was around the time of Apple X11 (which used white default backgrounds) vs. XDarwin (which used black). Perceptual oddness.
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