Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:00 am Post subject: Wiki index page
Hi jakeOSX,
I've had a look onto the "newmainpage" (text index page of wiki) you created. As you say "still thinking" on the recent changes page, I give my two cents - hope you read it as constructive criticism.
Well my first impression was: Three columns give a impression of narrowness. Couldn't we better stay with NeoOffice in a upper line and the two others (OO.o for X11 and NeoLight) below that?
In my impression of the existing index page, there could be some other improvements: Some space is lost, because the product names are above the logos and not to the right of it. The reminder to Terry Teague could be moved to the bottom of the page. Thus all three products would be there at first glance without scrolling (I assume, this was the goal of a new index page?).
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Wiki index page
Orgleser wrote:
In my impression of the existing index page, there could be some other improvements: Some space is lost, because the product names are above the logos and not to the right of it. The reminder to Terry Teague could be moved to the bottom of the page. Thus all three products would be there at first glance without scrolling (I assume, this was the goal of a new index page?).
I think I agree with the shepherd here .
best wishes,
Oscar _________________ "What do you think of Western Civilization?"
"I think it would be a good idea!"
- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Yeah, I've been debating what to do with the box about Terry for some time now.
Technically, that box is "Main Page News", and Terry's untimely passing is indeed no longer news. We haven't really had anything equally as significant to put up there (i.e., releases get shout-outs in their app's own box), so I never had a pressing reason to take the Terry news out of that box/take the box down. And, it's Terry....
On the other subject, 3 columns just doesn't work, indeed. Too narrow, too cramped
Getting the layout right for the logo+explanatory text--even as we have it now--is very difficult, and moving the app names down (Appname Logo Description) to be on the same "line" will be even more difficult to get right. Plus, the app names are really (and properly) headings for those "sections"
Straight HTML+CSS would make a lot of this much simpler/more flexible, but you can't do that with the wiki
So, no good solutions, just some explanations (and, well, that 3-column cheap-shot ) from the other half of the collaboration that brought the current layout....
Smokey
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
actually i was working towards a more total re-design, rather than just move what we have around.
first i am thinking the pictures need to go, they take up a lot of space...
what i was thinking for the front was something a bit cleaner, links to downloads, the forums and wiki help for each program. then there would be a main page (like we have for the x11 port) for each of them, with all of the details...
we'll see, i'm still playing now, and of course all you wiki-editing fools are welcome to join in. =)
Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject:
Well I personally would not delete the .pngs. They are the eye catchers for many... and they make the thing more attractive. Pictures are sth psychological necessary for a website I think.
FWIW the new main www server is nearly online. The mailserver has been the biatch. POP client access is now fine, the next difficulty is getting redirection and virtual domain delivery working via postfix.
If you need bizarre hosting space or redirections it should be ready within the week. Apache+PHP+MySQL availability for any hosting need.
actually i was working towards a more total re-design, rather than just move what we have around.
first i am thinking the pictures need to go, they take up a lot of space...
I'm with the shepherd on this...the images really help break up the monotony of text, and make the main page pleasing to the eye.
jakeOSX wrote:
what i was thinking for the front was something a bit cleaner, links to downloads, the forums and wiki help for each program. then there would be a main page (like we have for the x11 port) for each of them, with all of the details...
Hrm, my thoughts are pretty much the opposite I think we need to hide less of the content...meaning keep a number of useful links right on the home page. The wiki is content, not a home page, not a list of downloads (although stronger links back to trinity might be useful). My impression is that people come to the wiki from NeoOffice.org, Planamesa.com, and trinity (maybe even OOo, though I'd doubt they have a link) rather than the other way around...and they come to the wiki for troubleshooting and usage tips.
If you wanted to take the spot where Terry currently is mentioned and turn it into a "quick links" bar, that might be OK...but I don't think we want to push our real content another level deeper (and harder to find) into the wiki. (And I'd still use 16x16 px icons in that bar )
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:30 am Post subject:
Hi Smokey, having had a look at your proposal for newmainpage, I think creating a quicklinks frame makes things more complicated to view too. I personally would not do this.Less is more I think, because its easier to view. I again may ask for the goal of re-creating the main page. Goal should be ease of use - and in my opinion this brings up two other goals: making it nearly unneccesary to scroll the mainpage and not hiding content in deeper and deeper levels of the wiki. Is this correct?
To achieve these two goals I personally would prefer the following:
Is it really impossible to bring some of the written to the right of the logos? Could this be done with columns?
I think the "News" (e.g. "remembering Terry Teague") could be on the main with just a short heading and a link to another place. Thus "news" would be one line or if it is much news two lines - not more. That could stay on top of the page. Rest of it I personally would try with using spaces, e.g. those spaces to the right of the logos, as mentioned.
Now: my explicit regards to all working on this (even if opinions may differ sometimes).
I again may ask for the goal of re-creating the main page. Goal should be ease of use - and in my opinion this brings up two other goals: making it nearly unneccesary to scroll the mainpage and not hiding content in deeper and deeper levels of the wiki. Is this correct?
I think I'm in agreement here.
Smokey _________________ "[...] whether the duck drinks hot chocolate or coffee is irrelevant." -- ovvldc and sardisson in the NeoWiki
Joined: Feb 03, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Scotland
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:13 am Post subject:
FWIW - here are my 2 cents. I am trying to look at the re-design from the point of view of someone who is visiting this website for the very first time having some problem with NeoO, someone who does not really know what NeoOffice is based on etc. Think of your mum or granny. I am a bit concerned that someone like this might be confused seeing OpenOffice mentioned, NeoLight etc. So my questions are: Does NeoLight have to be separately mentioned? Does OpenOffice have to be mentioned here at all? I am not saying this because I think OpenOffice should be obliterated, or that I am not appreciating NeoLight - to the contrary. Just to make it more user-friendly for the less savvy.
Joined: Nov 28, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: Near Frankfurt/M. Germany
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:06 am Post subject:
Glenner maybe thats a good thougt. Would that mean we only provide a link to OO.o and NeoLight, perhaps with the logos and one short sentece of explanation what they are?
Joined: Feb 03, 2004 Posts: 241 Location: Scotland
Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:00 am Post subject:
It is just an observation - I haven't thought about it in detail. NeoLight will be needed by every user of NeoO if they want to use Spotlight. If NeoLight cannot be integrated into the NeoO installation then it will probably have to be mentioned as a separate programme. As to OpenOffice, no user of NeoOffice needs it. Some of their support resources may be useful (as you succinctly point out to the German community). Credit due where it is due but the use of "OpenOffice" on the NeoOffice website in my opinion is confusing to all those outsiders who are not open source boffins. They are just happy that they have found NeoOffice for their Mac. Too much information scares them. They do not even know about X11. I know a few like that myself. Because of NeoOffice's success we will get more and more people like that here.
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